WEBVTT

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I was cooking some eggs earlier and I decided that I would do something that I do every now and I have, I have some fancy

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Spanish olive oil, I think, I think I might have paid like $12 for the bottle.

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I was surprised myself a name scrambled a not a proper Friday night, a little bit of olive oil and they're crying spray on

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Well, yeah. My question is cooking eggs with olive oil, is that normal or try to be a doctor about that.

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Well,

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As you know, I'm a closet vegetarian. I don't even

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I so I

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I

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Have

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I have opinions on this.

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I have opinions. Yeah. Now,

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I've seen

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fried eggs.

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Made with olive oil and like

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Like it

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Not, not scrambled

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It's been fried eggs. It seems like that seems legit scrambled eggs with olive oil.

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Not, not see. I never even seen it done.

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Never seen it done.

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You're out on the edge there.

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Well you know I accept your commentary. And let me just add a slight revisions. Usually when I scramble and a now. And the way that I do it is you might call it an open like I don't actually like scrambling around

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Right.

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So it's not draw it out.

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scramble it in the bowl. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know my theory about why that is. It's like when when you

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Very frequently when you go get a breakfast. Well, yeah, it's cooked in that style where you can tell they just, they have a super hot.

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I don't know. Call it what what would you call the thing in the kitchen, a commercial kitchen. That's like a big black metal that's like

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We don't actually have that very much. Over here I the only place I've seen that is on the TV channels that shows things like Man vs. Food

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And

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It's, it's

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almost unknown over here, but I know you're talking about

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It's like the

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Top of a zinc table with like a fire underneath it. It's a

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Very, you know, Hopper, who did that night. Yeah, very night. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, we're like, we're like a guy you know paper hat name is Johnny

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Oh, yeah.

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He's

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an East Coast, something that looks

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Like something new to

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Us to

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Take, take wallpaper for wall.

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And he's flipping

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Flipping some

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Other

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Right. Anyways, I think, I think when a regular breakfast taco. They probably put bag on that kind of flat. Yeah, I don't know, I just I just like to

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Say, like, all right.

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I have actually made scrambled eggs but I make

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For other people

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I've made them in a very

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Big

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You know, like, like

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Those cast iron pans like really heavy.

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And

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The echoes in the pan and then I can't remember what I put do I put butter in it. Yeah, I think I put butter in it.

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And

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I think. Yeah.

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And then it heats up in in on the pan and then you take it off the heat and then you juggle it around a bit. And then you put it back.

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On the heats

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And you jiggling around a bit.

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And then you take it off so it's it's it never gets to that kind of dried out.

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crumbly texture which

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I remember from

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Many years ago.

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And that seemed to work got

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rave reviews.

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Now, now, that is that is that is that technique I have not heard, I heard a you've

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Been here you are from

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Oh yeah, which I, which I think are the premier sources, preventing us from series. That's pretty much what I read nowadays.

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But

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They said, is that the right way to scrambled eggs is basically the three main points with one you need to put some kind of liquid in the water or milk because

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When you get the, you know, of course, you need to scramble

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Yeah.

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Yeah, the liquid in there. And then when you're cooking at the the liquid evaporating create from

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Yes, yes, I'm not, I'm not a chemist, but I'll buy into that. Sure.

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Second point was that

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Kind of the first part of what you're saying is you have a super hot pan and and you put your scrambled segment, you're in there and kind of push it around, you know,

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And once once it gets kind of solid then you turn the heat, all the way down below and you continue. And this was the words they were shooting for with fluffy and this

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So, so I have experimented with this kind of technique, all sorts of ways, but I'm going to try your technique I like, I like that idea. Because what I usually do.

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Is I cook like one side of my lap scrambled egg and then I'll turn the heat off and turn it over and just let them eat the hotness yet temperature of the same but I liked it. I liked it. I liked the complicated net

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Cooking.

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Cooking the more complicated, the better. Oh yeah, definitely, definitely, things like

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So recently.

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Recently I

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Have

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Bought for my son to eat.

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steaks, at least I think so.

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I think their steaks. Remember I'm English. I live in England and what we call steak is probably not what you call steak.

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But it's labeled staff said that

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That's where we are.

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And through

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through osmosis through listening to you over centuries, I, I've just got the vaguest idea that it should be cooked simply and quickly and

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He

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He liked it.

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He likes it.

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I mean, I think the only thing he had on it was I think it was probably pepper and that was it.

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So it's like it's

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The

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Minimal steak minimal steak. But I was thinking I was

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The, the thing I'm thinking of now is

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Like, I think, I think it's T bone steak.

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The new one. I'm

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I'm considering

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But because, I mean, the main thing is that when he was a baby. He was absurdly fat when I was a baby. I was just

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Obscene Lee facts just ridiculously fast and now he's no longer baby and he's a teenager and let's just say he's not fat. He is growing, growing, growing and you've just got to get the food into him when he's in the mood and you know when he's awake and stuff.

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So I think

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I think get get the stuff in.

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Get the stuff in it doesn't matter what it is.

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As long as he's eating. It's good because he needs all that

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Kind of

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I like I like everything you did.

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This just getting the food indicated mouth from there. I mean, you got it. You just you. It's like you're just like,

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I have the wireless headphones. I could walk around the pair of pair of pathetic. Is that the word and yeah that's right now. I'm like, I'm like, crouching down

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Waiting for for aligned to attack me nothing like you just got to be there and be ready for when I'm to go to food down yeah yeah and

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It's a catcher's mitt situation, I think. Exactly. Exactly. And then, and then evolved. Oh, you definitely get it now T bone. I think it's pretty easy to identify because it has a bone in the shape

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Right you know i don't i don't know if this is true, I used to have the cooks illustrated book, which I thought is moving out of that. Yeah, I know.

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Probably should have kept it but I'm very aggressive about getting rid of stuff.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, so I don't remember if this is accurate, but is how I interpret reality that T bone is composed of a New York on one side and if the layman young

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This is

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Michael. This is going way too fast way to first

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I've heard all these words.

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I have definitely heard all these words but right

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What I'm good at what I was going to

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Ask you

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What I thought you were going to tell me which you've just gone.

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Out.

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You just go way, way beyond

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My, my realm of understanding here what I was going to ask you is, am I, is my general approach was steak. Correct. And do I not

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Do I need to change that approach.

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If I get a t bone steak.

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Oh no, I, I got

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And so first of all let me get a simple answer. Yeah. Your approaches correct there there's and love. Let me, let me let me answer all your questions, who

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monologue.

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We give a brief fake lecture.

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Yeah, so basically the fake, fake, fake. Now my visit all my preferences. First, if you

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If you can get in a good one. Have a bone in it that's always been just got it. I very rarely have a bone in my state.

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What, why, why, why was she wants a phone in there.

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Well, it's fun. Oh okay and and then and then also if you manage to burn it. Now I don't know if you remember that from your, your carnal.

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Aren't

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I'm 46

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Days of behind me.

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Think I need to go.

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Consultant dictionaries.

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About your

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And if he bone. And if he volunteers with little divot at the top. And I don't know what that isn't there. But there's this little delectable things

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That most important thing is gross but like if you cook it just like it can be a little tough, but it's it's almost like I think it's kind of like the fisheye

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weird little

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Well,

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That doesn't sound gross at all. Michael

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Didn't know no

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Something

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To eat.

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I have a bad habit. I've noticed the talking about that. I think it's really good by describing it.

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And

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My oldest this remote he sent he actually

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He actually sent me

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A my son sent me a fantastic text, which is

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Which is on the same thing with the same theme, it, it is quote I had such a big burger yesterday and I ate it so fast that I couldn't lie down on my

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Stomach to go to

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Sleep comma

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It was extremely delicious.

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It was extremely

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Delicious.

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It was basically him saying

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I don't care.

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I don't care who's worth it was worth it.

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Don't judge me.

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From cares to the

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Burger. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Joys of a burger. So

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It's good to have a phone, and then I would recommend to get the state as financially.

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steak is good. And this is, I think so. So I think you might have made a reference or maybe not to the specific thing but you know every now and then, while I was in Amsterdam.

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Got something that was described as

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I don't even know what it was.

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Maybe

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It was a it was a state and it was admittedly in the central train station. However, I found the perfect cafe has been for a long time, or restaurant, and it has got a history, though it's been like a legit plates anyway.

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I think the issue is when I get faith abroad. They're often thin and I think people. Yes. Tell me the truth is fake circuit.

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Yes, yes.

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I am not that that that happened. But to me, state should be. I don't even know, like at least half of your thumb.

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Right, a regular

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Yeah.

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Right.

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So, so there you go. You want to get it fixed and preferably with the bone. However, with the footnote that I very rarely

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See your other two point which I think we were spot on about, as they say, yeah, you want to wait a minute, wait a minute.

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Steak.

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Does this

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My concern about a thick a thicker steak.

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Is at the cooking time just can you just

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Ah,

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Just park that for the moment.

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Park of that. Yeah, let's go over Louise's quickly go through their preparation and then

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And then, yep, the great mystery of state.

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Cooking is difficult part. So here's how I prepared this thing I've been to most one nowadays I always

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Cover it and olive oil but cover it. I don't mean like submerging or anything. I just like I were some olive oil on it and I rub it around my fingers on both sides.

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So you can

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Never Say No, I just think

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Well, now there's. Now there's another thing that commonly, this doesn't happen too much anymore because people realize that it makes them a short amount of time if people use butter.

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And

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In fact,

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There was this, this is this is a template of a stakeout around here.

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I assume what I don't know if there's a place that film called the brow, which probably is German for something like, you know,

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Simple like that and they have states and they are famous for, like, they give you a steak and they just put butter on so

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You know, that's delicious. And I think maybe the flight that made me think that you add fat.

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Thing. Yeah. And so why not do it with olive oil because olive oil is like mentally. It's delicious. I've never really determined if it actually is.

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Olive oil you haven't olive oil with like some bread, and there's a lot to be said. So, yeah.

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Yeah. Cover the speaking, although in olive oil. And then I think you want to get a coarse grain.

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Some people would be kosher salt.

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But I'm there. And then, so that's your sort of minimal thing and you want to like want to like push this evening and sick and that you have to put the olive oil on first. Right, so

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Yeah.

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And then what I like to do. Emily this from my because I get some like that. My chili powder, which sounds crazy if you're not used to like southwestern chili powder is pretty funny like run

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Yeah, and I, I just get some chili powder is not like chili powder and put it on there. Sometimes I put some human on things like that. And then, and then if your wife is not looking

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To get the delicious flavors.

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Then

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Cooking.

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So wait,

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Wait, wait, and it

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Is ok

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Is there a resting period now.

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Ah, this is much much debated.

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I, I, it was my understanding, and once again, I thought we have given away my my cooks illustrated book of me.

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It was my understanding that you wanted to read the stake for an hour, an hour or

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Something like that which which you know

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That sounds cool, but I have been talking

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And by talking. I mean, you know, comments with as we call them on the other podcast, Paul.

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Yes, yes, yes. If you didn't account for basically he is the media meet person that I know.

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And and he he informed me that that you know

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There's no, there's no, there's nothing for now. I don't know. You know, like, I don't really know. I could see that there could be some science behind it that if you have your stake in the fridge.

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The fact that in it are going to be more

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Regulated yeah and you know if you're if you if you cook your sake, a minimal amount of time that gives the fat less time to kind of like out. And so, but I don't know I just whatever

229
00:17:43.395 --> 00:17:46.680
Now, and that's been something I've never done it like

230
00:17:47.790 --> 00:17:48.840
Right, I haven't

231
00:17:51.270 --> 00:17:54.840
But I've never done it on my own, that that would maybe that's something I can do in retirement.

232
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Yes.

233
00:17:57.720 --> 00:17:59.670
And I think there's it I

234
00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:01.050
Honestly think that's one of

235
00:18:01.050 --> 00:18:04.830
Those things that sounds straightforward and easy and actually isn't.

236
00:18:05.460 --> 00:18:06.840
I bet you there's a special thing.

237
00:18:08.250 --> 00:18:12.510
Yeah, I agree. And probably waiting for retirement. When my immune system is that we

238
00:18:13.830 --> 00:18:16.050
Yes, yes. Experiment with

239
00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:24.090
So the cookie.

240
00:18:25.110 --> 00:18:27.120
Cookie two ways I could say

241
00:18:28.710 --> 00:18:34.830
One is you have a grill and we would probably be the whole rest of the world outside of Texas called it a barbecue.

242
00:18:36.060 --> 00:18:48.720
Grill and we have a gas grill, which is not the event, but it ideally again, which I very rarely ever do you want charcoal charcoal as fantastic flavor. To me that is

243
00:18:49.890 --> 00:18:56.670
Impossible to get oh yeah but you have a grill and you wanted to as possible and then

244
00:18:59.070 --> 00:19:01.410
There's two ways I could take one for me in one for

245
00:19:02.820 --> 00:19:03.480
This normal

246
00:19:04.590 --> 00:19:13.140
Right. That's right. So for regular people. Most people want to say to the medium rare. Yeah. And so my first principle.

247
00:19:14.520 --> 00:19:31.890
Is the instant that you think it needs like five more minutes to cook. It's done all the way that I didn't do it. And so, so basically you guys super hot grill right and you put it on the grill. And you're probably like the kind of steak that I'm thinking, which is kind of like

248
00:19:33.060 --> 00:19:39.570
I don't know from, you know, half of my thumb sickness and maybe like one and a half.

249
00:19:42.210 --> 00:19:43.620
As big as my hand or like

250
00:19:45.330 --> 00:19:49.830
What 1.3 times as big as I'm glad.

251
00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:50.580
I'm glad at

252
00:19:50.670 --> 00:19:53.340
Me and everyone else watching us on youtube

253
00:19:53.370 --> 00:19:55.080
Can see you hold up your hand now.

254
00:19:56.610 --> 00:20:01.050
Well you know I was, I was the last time they kind of

255
00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:04.740
This must have been the unit.

256
00:20:07.980 --> 00:20:13.140
There is a feeling there. So I waited myself and like I said on it now is like what is this number.

257
00:20:16.470 --> 00:20:22.620
Kilograms or pound it was it was it was stone, and I was like, who the

258
00:20:23.790 --> 00:20:25.440
The digital get all this

259
00:20:29.700 --> 00:20:30.210
Crazy.

260
00:20:31.470 --> 00:20:37.770
That is ridiculous. Yeah, anyway. So, you know, you better horses enhance my evil major stake. Yeah, yeah.

261
00:20:38.940 --> 00:20:51.540
So yeah for for a regular like regular person, I think, I think you're going to cook it like three to four minute Donnie. Basically, what you're going to do. Okay. Yeah. And that, that is that is shorter than

262
00:20:51.540 --> 00:20:51.960
I

263
00:20:52.860 --> 00:20:55.380
Yeah, I need to be comfortable with that.

264
00:20:55.500 --> 00:20:57.240
Kind of time. Yeah.

265
00:20:58.080 --> 00:21:13.950
And then, and then, and then I guess their red thing happened. Also after there is a resting where you let it sit there for life. As you know, the 10 minute you want to want to put it on a plane and then foil on top of it. Every everyone's always trying to boil without

266
00:21:15.690 --> 00:21:21.510
Oil on yeah and you want to let it sit there because because it's still going to cook feel super hot.

267
00:21:22.620 --> 00:21:29.640
hot enough. And then you'll see all this juice that come out of it. So you know you had experiment now maybe maybe

268
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:49.440
Four minutes on each side too long and you open it up later and he undercooked but somewhere between, you know, for I hesitate to say 847 minutes aside probably what's going to be good. Yeah. Yeah. And again, like the way the way that i mean i don't

269
00:21:50.490 --> 00:21:58.980
As it was all stuff that you cook all the time. I don't. I couldn't write it down. But the way I think about it is, like, one time getting paranoid and I'm gonna ruin the state is immediately.

270
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:07.320
Yeah, many years where I was like, oh, it's only been three minutes i know i i know it needs to cook longer and then I would eat all the

271
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:08.640
So,

272
00:22:09.780 --> 00:22:18.960
That's what you do regularly. Well, now when you cut into it if you want it to be read and write the whole thing with the state is that it needs to be like

273
00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:20.490
Yeah.

274
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:29.640
That's that's the that's cooking for regular people. Yeah. Now, the way I the way I think is basically like

275
00:22:30.810 --> 00:22:32.130
Two to three minutes I'm mean,

276
00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:35.310
Like i i don't i don't like I'm like my

277
00:22:36.510 --> 00:22:36.990
When this is a

278
00:22:37.020 --> 00:22:39.540
Rare, rare. Yeah, yeah.

279
00:22:40.560 --> 00:22:51.420
Definitely were like i mean i mean i if it's purple inside. That's great. Like Reddit is it to be like very and I don't like

280
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:52.950
So,

281
00:22:53.040 --> 00:22:54.330
So have you ever eaten.

282
00:22:54.690 --> 00:22:55.770
Have you ever started eating a

283
00:22:55.770 --> 00:22:59.850
Steak that you've made for yourself and thought, I haven't cooked this enough.

284
00:23:05.100 --> 00:23:08.550
Now, interesting. Interesting. Yeah.

285
00:23:08.580 --> 00:23:09.660
Because I'm definitely

286
00:23:09.690 --> 00:23:19.260
In my mind I keep thinking this even, even the relatively thinner steaks, we have over here. I'm thinking this is meet. I've got a cook this and and proper.

287
00:23:20.100 --> 00:23:22.950
Head feels like lots of time, lots of heat.

288
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:24.780
But no.

289
00:23:25.860 --> 00:23:32.700
And thankfully I had my son to experimental so yeah I'm gonna see I'm going to see what he can take

290
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:41.700
Yeah, and you know, obviously I am no expert or whatever I'm replying, maybe a pen healthy but yeah

291
00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:49.500
And since then, things are hard. Those are very difficult cook because you can like

292
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:53.190
I shouldn't say you can overcook them.

293
00:23:54.450 --> 00:24:03.360
So like and i and i guess so, then states are like I just put them. I mean, depending on health and they are like it could just be like a minute. Yeah. Wow.

294
00:24:06.570 --> 00:24:07.680
It's almost like eggs.

295
00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:11.550
There you go.

296
00:24:15.780 --> 00:24:30.360
Maybe that well anyway. The second thing. If I don't have a grill and and i don't know when I'm lazy like I have maybe as you were saying I have a very heavy, you know, the kind of that you could like kill a zombie. Yeah, yeah.

297
00:24:31.470 --> 00:24:37.950
And yeah, you just like load that thing up with some, you know, you don't even need all of what you've already put it on a day to make it

298
00:24:42.510 --> 00:24:42.810
And

299
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:44.340
Now you know

300
00:24:45.810 --> 00:24:47.400
And when you do when you're cooking.

301
00:24:47.490 --> 00:24:49.500
On the on the like that.

302
00:24:49.980 --> 00:24:51.420
He went when I

303
00:24:51.510 --> 00:24:52.530
Look at stakes for

304
00:24:52.530 --> 00:24:56.820
Sale. There's like the fat around it and

305
00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:58.230
In my head I'm thinking

306
00:24:58.470 --> 00:24:59.520
When you cook it on the big

307
00:24:59.520 --> 00:25:05.310
Pattern the fat sort of renders down and you're cooking it like that. You shouldn't

308
00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:08.520
I shouldn't be looking for a steak with no fat on

309
00:25:11.550 --> 00:25:15.270
The whole thing of it is, it's full of fat. That's what makes us think otherwise, it's

310
00:25:16.740 --> 00:25:18.090
No wonder he likes it, and maybe

311
00:25:19.890 --> 00:25:23.880
There might be another thing that's like different when I go out and about in the states is like

312
00:25:26.370 --> 00:25:40.200
I can't speak for the rest of us, but to take that we haven't texted, or like some of the fatty is custom you know it has to marvel. There's always a player like that's the whole. That's the whole you'll Robert right

313
00:25:41.760 --> 00:25:43.830
Well, otherwise you know

314
00:25:43.980 --> 00:25:47.610
And we have great kids, which are a whole other story but breakfast or equally like

315
00:25:49.980 --> 00:25:52.740
Being the run through with that, like the point

316
00:25:55.860 --> 00:25:57.540
I think over here.

317
00:25:57.570 --> 00:26:06.810
That is the only thing I know nothing about this but I keep thinking in Angus Angus steak has lots of marbling

318
00:26:06.840 --> 00:26:08.580
In it, but if you get just

319
00:26:10.170 --> 00:26:10.950
I think so.

320
00:26:11.130 --> 00:26:12.300
I think so, like, like

321
00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:14.010
Yeah.

322
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:21.150
But, but if you go to local supermarket. It's like beef in the middle and a small amount of, I think,

323
00:26:22.350 --> 00:26:29.820
I think people used to ask when when they were butchers people used to ask the butcher to cut the fat off.

324
00:26:30.630 --> 00:26:33.180
You know, this is like a 1980s thing of

325
00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:35.070
No, no, no. You don't want to act on anything.

326
00:26:35.550 --> 00:26:36.000
But yeah

327
00:26:36.300 --> 00:26:36.510
It's

328
00:26:37.530 --> 00:26:39.570
Alyssa. I think I know to look for now.

329
00:26:40.830 --> 00:26:41.220
And

330
00:26:42.060 --> 00:26:48.480
I know where I'm not going wrong, as it were, I think, yeah.

331
00:26:48.630 --> 00:26:52.920
Yeah, yeah. And you know, and I spent many years.

332
00:26:54.090 --> 00:27:05.190
In the past 10 years figuring out how to Coach K to my lighting. So it's very difficult. Yeah, like, get it, get it, get it right and and again. I mean, so the guiding principle that one.

333
00:27:06.930 --> 00:27:07.950
Before you can get done.

334
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:12.780
And then the other thing I would say is, you know, you can always look at more

335
00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:14.040
Yeah yeah yeah

336
00:27:14.610 --> 00:27:14.790
Yeah.

337
00:27:14.940 --> 00:27:15.840
There's a kind of food. Let's

338
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:21.870
Just tried to eat it as we as possible. And if it's gross.

339
00:27:23.220 --> 00:27:29.610
Now, now maybe to bookmark to another time I've heard. I've heard rumors out in the hinterlands

340
00:27:30.630 --> 00:27:35.040
That everything we know about the pork might be wrong. And you should also know

341
00:27:37.650 --> 00:27:45.570
But you know, I have not verified it, but when I was when I was growing up, if you didn't overcome it. You didn't yeah we're perfectly you and you instantly.

342
00:27:46.590 --> 00:27:47.160
Instantly

343
00:27:47.430 --> 00:27:48.330
Instantly, and

344
00:27:48.390 --> 00:27:55.230
And painful. You did happen. Yeah. So, but, but it is true. I mean pork is a very dry.

345
00:27:56.520 --> 00:27:58.320
And no, no, no.

346
00:27:58.800 --> 00:28:00.810
Yeah, they, they have it. They have it with

347
00:28:00.870 --> 00:28:02.250
Apple sauce over here.

348
00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:07.320
Yeah, yeah, it's quite

349
00:28:07.350 --> 00:28:08.910
Old Fashioned they didn't

350
00:28:09.570 --> 00:28:11.220
I don't think you see it much now.

351
00:28:11.310 --> 00:28:12.285
I mean, it's

352
00:28:13.830 --> 00:28:16.140
I haven't actually eating that much meat.

353
00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:21.570
In my life at all. I've eaten mutton, and I've eaten.

354
00:28:24.150 --> 00:28:25.830
What's it called when you shoot them.

355
00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:28.140
venison

356
00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:30.240
Because

357
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:32.550
Well, I

358
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:33.330
I shot it

359
00:28:33.450 --> 00:28:34.020
I shot the

360
00:28:34.050 --> 00:28:36.630
Was finished and come from a dear, dear.

361
00:28:39.090 --> 00:28:44.820
Friend of mine. I'm sure I mentioned this before, a friend of mine. His one of his grandparents died.

362
00:28:45.360 --> 00:29:02.310
And they had a big cow set in the country. And we went there to kind of clear it out and in the cellar. Apparently they drunk all the wine and all the stuff that was left was Pisco and Mezcal and stuff like that. So that was pretty intense and they have

363
00:29:03.090 --> 00:29:08.190
Shotguns like proper, you know, long double barrel shotguns and single Barrel Shotguns

364
00:29:08.760 --> 00:29:11.670
For hunting. So we went hunting.

365
00:29:11.970 --> 00:29:18.480
And I shot a deer and then later on we ate some of it. It was great.

366
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:24.930
Wow. And that's right that up one day. That's a good there would be a great story.

367
00:29:25.260 --> 00:29:26.580
Yes. And yeah.

368
00:29:26.730 --> 00:29:27.180
It should

369
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:32.430
The surprise is that we didn't kill each other with the guns.

370
00:29:32.670 --> 00:29:33.750
Because I know

371
00:29:37.110 --> 00:29:40.350
Mezcal and shotguns, probably not a good idea.

372
00:29:40.950 --> 00:29:44.310
But yeah, we survived boiling them. Yeah.

373
00:29:50.190 --> 00:29:58.410
Well now that now that we have the the pre emigrating here, you know, it occurred to me that that you're trying to add about cloud.

374
00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:02.730
Do I really

375
00:30:05.070 --> 00:30:05.640
Try to use

376
00:30:09.990 --> 00:30:16.020
The moment is another way to train having discipline of letting other people, Robert. Yes. Are you

377
00:30:18.675 --> 00:30:19.920
Really put me on the spot.

378
00:30:20.340 --> 00:30:20.730
Well,

379
00:30:22.500 --> 00:30:22.950
Okay.

380
00:30:23.010 --> 00:30:23.280
Okay.

381
00:30:23.340 --> 00:30:32.670
I do, I do have a, a, you know, you know when when Merlin says it's it's always two things with me. My thing is

382
00:30:33.030 --> 00:30:34.260
I find when I'm speaking with

383
00:30:34.260 --> 00:30:34.560
People

384
00:30:34.620 --> 00:30:35.670
I always go

385
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:41.160
Go up a level of abstraction. So

386
00:30:41.190 --> 00:30:43.440
If people are talking about it.

387
00:30:43.530 --> 00:30:43.920
Yeah.

388
00:30:43.950 --> 00:30:48.540
If people are talking about kind of granular stuff. I always tend to make it less

389
00:30:48.690 --> 00:30:51.000
Granular and talk about a kind of

390
00:30:51.840 --> 00:30:54.240
An umbrella thing or the containing

391
00:30:54.270 --> 00:30:55.530
Objects more that

392
00:30:55.590 --> 00:30:58.350
The more general and less specific

393
00:30:59.070 --> 00:31:06.120
And people don't like that. They just want you to talk about the problem. They're actually having and and

394
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:07.530
I went, yeah.

395
00:31:07.590 --> 00:31:08.130
Yeah yeah yeah

396
00:31:08.190 --> 00:31:16.110
I want to talk about the nature of the problem in a more general sense, and they look at me like, yeah, this is all very interesting. Robert, but it's not going to actually solve

397
00:31:16.590 --> 00:31:25.560
This problem we're having right now. And so, but those are the things that really interest me so we're doing. We're doing this.

398
00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:37.710
Well, I'm I'm watching other people do this modeling work ontology is that kind of stuff where I work, and I find it absolutely fascinating. And I, I'm always giving

399
00:31:38.370 --> 00:31:53.490
Up a level of abstraction, even with them and it's it's amazing, it's I think it's kind of weird Golden Age, in a way, but that particular cloudy thing I was thinking about recently again quite abstract is

400
00:31:55.260 --> 00:32:03.150
This, this whole concept, the big concept of on prem as they used to say on premise and

401
00:32:03.630 --> 00:32:04.200
Cloud.

402
00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:17.400
So the big leap was supposed to be, you were running office 365 of, you know, your, your computer and then now you're running mainly office 365 of the cloud or G sweet or whatever it's called. Now,

403
00:32:18.120 --> 00:32:28.680
And then that big shift to putting most of your business logic kinds of the cloud. And now there's that kind of the push to server list and that sort of stuff. And I've heard you.

404
00:32:29.730 --> 00:32:41.340
Talk in several areas and rice and several areas about the kind of the realistic mechanics of actual companies in the actual world moving water.

405
00:32:41.580 --> 00:32:43.440
What used to be called legacy stuff.

406
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:50.940
And what is now called production stuff onto the cloud and that whole idea of on premise.

407
00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:55.590
Am I right in thinking that's pretty much going or gone

408
00:32:59.610 --> 00:33:00.000
Well,

409
00:33:01.275 --> 00:33:05.250
In the I were just talking about someone in another video about this earlier.

410
00:33:08.910 --> 00:33:10.980
Yeah, I think, I think.

411
00:33:13.470 --> 00:33:17.220
Massage some of your terms there i think i think there's three term.

412
00:33:18.660 --> 00:33:26.730
Philosophically up there to extractor abstractions, or maybe to be at the same level which is one you have on premise, which means

413
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:31.950
I see that you've set up before

414
00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:45.930
Maybe you know you've got a server storage and you probably run it and one of your data center somewhere and running vmware and it runs, whatever you want. And maybe you haven't managed service provider or

415
00:33:47.580 --> 00:33:54.870
For you, but it's basically like I have this application. I need to run it. So I spec out with storage servers and

416
00:33:56.250 --> 00:34:00.030
And basically dedicated the hardware is dedicated

417
00:34:01.530 --> 00:34:11.730
Yeah, and and there's some variation there like I might have a vmware cluster that can run a bunch of little applications and by applications. I mean, they don't require much perform. Yeah.

418
00:34:11.970 --> 00:34:22.710
Yeah, but usually you have the dedicated hardware for the software and that I think that modality that way of doing what people usually say

419
00:34:23.940 --> 00:34:24.120
Yes.

420
00:34:25.230 --> 00:34:32.280
Yes. Yes. And you know that that was all fine and that that also is run in the, the method that you run it in

421
00:34:34.530 --> 00:34:35.910
Is basically

422
00:34:38.190 --> 00:34:44.580
I don't know this this early 2000s way of thinking about stuff which is it service management or IPS, yes.

423
00:34:46.650 --> 00:34:51.990
And it's basically driven whether a user's account or it'll which

424
00:34:53.460 --> 00:34:54.720
Is your queen way.

425
00:34:57.630 --> 00:35:00.000
She has her. She has her official seal on it.

426
00:35:01.590 --> 00:35:02.280
If I recall

427
00:35:04.770 --> 00:35:09.600
Like, basically it says there's, there's, there's a great book. The, the, the, the

428
00:35:11.010 --> 00:35:15.030
Service Delivery manual and there's all sorts of books and they thought like 120 pound each

429
00:35:16.740 --> 00:35:30.570
Suitable reason, but it's a whole process. That's a very sort of like Scrum process but persistence, which is basically like you're providing you're providing a service and service mean someone is using your thing like email.

430
00:35:32.520 --> 00:35:49.590
And they make a request to change something about it. And then you track that through a writeup called the ticket and then go through the series of people and help prioritize people figure out how to work on it and then you deliver that thing and then the end user and happier.

431
00:35:50.640 --> 00:36:05.580
Which you know again. Sounds a lot like how you do software development right like you have a user user, you know, Peter was to print and you have this whole process. He goes to deliver that. And so that's sort of like on premise.

432
00:36:07.770 --> 00:36:08.310
And then I think

433
00:36:09.630 --> 00:36:20.280
The second term is basically I'm always very careful with a public cloud, but I still think when most people say cloud, then you public cloud, which is to say

434
00:36:21.390 --> 00:36:24.810
You're Ivan running software as a service like G sweet or off the

435
00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:29.010
Salesforce com or Wordpress

436
00:36:29.550 --> 00:36:37.080
whatever it is you're doing your interact. You don't have to install or update the software and you don't really have there's just the application.

437
00:36:38.610 --> 00:36:45.240
Right. No, no, managing so so would would would would running stuff on

438
00:36:45.690 --> 00:36:51.930
Would running software that you'd written on AWS or is you're still be called public cloud.

439
00:36:53.310 --> 00:36:59.070
Yeah yeah type of public cloud. And that is basically like

440
00:37:00.450 --> 00:37:03.420
Here's a bunch of middleware. No one says middleware anymore but

441
00:37:04.950 --> 00:37:21.600
There's much of middleware that we run for you that you can use or ending here are a bunch of blinking cursor is right yeah just servers that are ready to do something. And these servers can be like, you know, virtualized servers and they can be Docker images.

442
00:37:22.650 --> 00:37:27.960
Stairway of running servers or or to some extent, you know, even server stuff.

443
00:37:29.520 --> 00:37:32.640
But basically just like which we can get it sounds like I'm

444
00:37:37.080 --> 00:37:37.950
Not paying fees today.

445
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:45.690
I'll put the bill but the queen, but then you have

446
00:37:49.785 --> 00:37:54.330
You have you have you have software as a service, and you have like a college infrastructure.

447
00:37:55.560 --> 00:37:58.440
And the whole point of both of those that

448
00:37:59.910 --> 00:38:08.100
I don't know if this is true, as we user of whatever that is, you don't have to worry about her manage the layer right

449
00:38:09.600 --> 00:38:25.290
The software as a service person. I don't have to worry about installing the software running and I did software and if I'm using infrastructure as a service or platform as a service. I don't have to worry about installing the hardware felon we operate and manage storage.

450
00:38:26.850 --> 00:38:33.150
And I'm using platform as a service. I don't have to worry about setting up servers and configuring these various things.

451
00:38:35.610 --> 00:38:35.970
I just

452
00:38:36.330 --> 00:38:47.730
It's kind of like, you know, developers, all you have a note. They have nowadays, but they used to use it like this page wiki that like you got your corporate laptop. Now you can offend the week getting everything set up.

453
00:38:49.140 --> 00:38:49.560
To

454
00:38:49.770 --> 00:38:50.580
My SQL.

455
00:38:50.610 --> 00:38:51.120
Yeah yeah

456
00:38:51.900 --> 00:38:55.710
Yeah. And so like a platform as a service does all that for you. And then I'll

457
00:38:58.380 --> 00:39:02.370
Yes. And most people when they think cloud, they mean that. Yeah, so

458
00:39:02.430 --> 00:39:03.810
So the difference there from

459
00:39:03.810 --> 00:39:05.040
A developer point of view.

460
00:39:05.640 --> 00:39:08.340
Is is a kind of small version of the

461
00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:11.790
Kind of containing thing that I was thinking about is

462
00:39:12.210 --> 00:39:13.110
In the past,

463
00:39:13.200 --> 00:39:14.520
You would, you know,

464
00:39:14.610 --> 00:39:29.340
As a developer, you turn up to a place you'd get your laptop and you would have that list of instructions, how to build the local environment, you know, we use this ID and we, you know, these things are on the K drive or whatever it is, or net app or something.

465
00:39:30.090 --> 00:39:30.930
But then, yeah.

466
00:39:31.350 --> 00:39:32.220
Then now.

467
00:39:32.640 --> 00:39:35.940
You know, I, I am in environments where

468
00:39:37.080 --> 00:39:47.400
Most of the time the people I think of as developers are actually looking at that kind of as your admin pages, you know, kind of like

469
00:39:47.970 --> 00:39:49.770
Stuff completely

470
00:39:50.160 --> 00:39:56.160
You know, it's almost like nothing touches that disk. It's amazing. And I

471
00:39:56.430 --> 00:39:57.840
Just that the two

472
00:39:58.170 --> 00:40:07.530
The two sorry to jump in, but they're just what I can think of it. The two things that particular occurred to me in terms of, as it were, risk and mitigation are

473
00:40:09.120 --> 00:40:16.590
One really strange risk is that that the systems, the systems of from the vendor are being developed.

474
00:40:16.950 --> 00:40:19.740
Faster than that we can train people. So

475
00:40:19.980 --> 00:40:21.270
Basically initial stuff is

476
00:40:21.270 --> 00:40:22.800
Coming out you know power apps and all

477
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:23.460
That sort of stuff.

478
00:40:23.850 --> 00:40:28.350
Is coming up quicker than we can hire people to use it. And also that

479
00:40:28.590 --> 00:40:29.790
rather bizarre.

480
00:40:30.030 --> 00:40:37.680
Concern of, you know, in, in, in, you know, wadleigh terms as all of those layers get eaten up

481
00:40:38.940 --> 00:40:49.110
That you were sort of ceding control and you know if you're yeah of course if you're if you're configuring my schooling on your laptop. It's all your problem.

482
00:40:49.620 --> 00:40:58.680
And who you're going to trust you, or Microsoft to do it on a show, of course, Microsoft, but there is that feeling of, wait a minute.

483
00:40:59.100 --> 00:41:09.810
So if you go full on server lists, you're basically writing business logic straight to the cloud. I mean, you're writing, you might as well be writing BPM L or something.

484
00:41:10.530 --> 00:41:10.830
And

485
00:41:10.890 --> 00:41:11.220
You know,

486
00:41:14.820 --> 00:41:15.810
I'm an old man.

487
00:41:16.050 --> 00:41:16.950
An old man like

488
00:41:18.270 --> 00:41:18.750
BPM. Oh.

489
00:41:20.370 --> 00:41:29.850
That's, that's what it feels like. It feels like it wasn't that long ago when you, when I hit what when you're talking about it till I thought, well, I remember that that wasn't that long ago.

490
00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:51.060
And going from that to now when you know you're taught, you're in an environment where Microsoft and Amazon are delivering service. Now it's not some weird future thing it's it's it's deployable now and we can't keep up.

491
00:41:54.210 --> 00:41:56.610
Yeah, I think that that that last point that

492
00:41:57.690 --> 00:41:58.740
You bug with vendors

493
00:42:00.045 --> 00:42:04.740
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, that is that is quite the dilemma.

494
00:42:08.610 --> 00:42:09.990
With began doing nothing.

495
00:42:11.370 --> 00:42:13.170
Right. Like, like, which

496
00:42:14.550 --> 00:42:17.130
Which which is difficult, but it's basically like

497
00:42:19.290 --> 00:42:29.850
It would be, it would be like it would be like, well, this is not accurate at all. And I probably shouldn't say this, but it's sort of like you should probably not going to drive right now.

498
00:42:30.090 --> 00:42:30.630
Yeah yeah

499
00:42:32.010 --> 00:42:34.770
It's very like the late and like nothing

500
00:42:37.980 --> 00:42:39.150
Nothing, nothing.

501
00:42:40.830 --> 00:42:41.460
Yeah, Alan.

502
00:42:42.990 --> 00:42:54.900
You know, he Man, that guy. I got a lot to be said about that guy, but he does, he does have some interesting rule of thumb, which is like I try to only eat foods that are a couple centuries old

503
00:42:55.980 --> 00:43:05.100
Right, we're like a table of stuff out if this thing works. And if there's something to be said for technology in that area. It is. It is.

504
00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:13.110
It is harder. And so, yeah, like, like if you were to accurate. I think in the past.

505
00:43:14.220 --> 00:43:20.640
Five years we went from basically like Amazon, etc.

506
00:43:22.080 --> 00:43:37.020
Right, so just just on demand virtualization and storage virtualized servers and storage. And then we had like Docker containers that was the fingers for us to do. And then, and then we had, we had

507
00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:50.610
Will Cooper Nettie isn't turtle. It's happened at the same time. So, so lambda came out and I remember at the time my reaction to it, which I think was everyone else's reaction was like, well, that sounds stupid. And then like

508
00:43:51.810 --> 00:43:55.380
Everyone's everyone's all into like survivalist right but

509
00:43:56.520 --> 00:44:01.230
As service is getting more popular like Cooper natives comes out and now you're supposed to install Cooper 90s.

510
00:44:03.330 --> 00:44:09.390
And now you're supposed to do everything with server server list and not even have to worry about all that right

511
00:44:11.610 --> 00:44:23.580
Now, now tell me, tell me what your estimates are but I'm pretty sure that most what we call it in your prize large organization, whether they're for profit or not for profit.

512
00:44:25.410 --> 00:44:26.160
That's the other thing.

513
00:44:28.710 --> 00:44:49.470
I think they're probably on. That's right. I think there are at least a five year cycle for deciding on a technology acquiring the technology figuring out how to use the technology and putting let's say 510 percent of their workloads on that analogy successfully and running right yes

514
00:44:50.790 --> 00:44:55.200
Yeah. Yeah, you were sort of organization. Yeah. Yeah. But this is this is the thing.

515
00:44:55.410 --> 00:44:56.490
Yes, and

516
00:44:58.230 --> 00:45:03.780
This is where I disagree with, with your point about that. Sounds like you should do nothing, because in a way

517
00:45:04.890 --> 00:45:05.910
This feels like this.

518
00:45:05.970 --> 00:45:06.810
almost feels like

519
00:45:08.160 --> 00:45:13.290
It feels like to me that's a bit that the five year thing with which I completely agree.

520
00:45:14.490 --> 00:45:19.350
To me feels like I can cook you a great meal but it's going to take me six hours to make it

521
00:45:19.770 --> 00:45:21.900
It's like, that's not a meal. I can't do that.

522
00:45:22.350 --> 00:45:37.980
So you have to do you have to, you have to fix that problem, a different way. So if I'm involved in, you know, talking about, okay, what's our forward plan for data strategy for the next three years or something like that. My instant reaction.

523
00:45:38.040 --> 00:45:38.820
Is, you know,

524
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:41.610
At least my internal voice is does

525
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:46.350
Google have a three year plan for data strategy. I don't think they do.

526
00:45:46.710 --> 00:45:47.910
I think they have a direct

527
00:45:48.390 --> 00:45:50.730
I think they have a direction but

528
00:45:50.970 --> 00:45:59.040
There's no way that we can you know there was there was a feeling of security in the idea of the kind of capsule our roadmap.

529
00:45:59.520 --> 00:46:19.230
So you'd say we're going to go with Exchange, you know, 2002 and exchange 2006 or whatever it was. And you could you really could plot that out and you could have a list of broad estimates of upgrade cycles and budget and all that sort of stuff. And that's gone. I mean,

530
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:20.910
Or substantially

531
00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:24.840
Going very quickly and my, my concern isn't

532
00:46:25.890 --> 00:46:37.890
A Council of despair. It's really, especially when I look at the back end of is your and AWS AWS recently I looked at and their, their surplus stuff. It's just, it's just

533
00:46:38.910 --> 00:46:50.640
Added to weekly. I mean, they're just pouring stuff in there and you know I'm looking at this stuff and thinking, My God, how are we going to get people. It feels like

534
00:46:51.900 --> 00:46:58.230
Finding a driver for a car, but we. This is a great car, but we have no driver. We need to be able to actually

535
00:46:58.230 --> 00:46:59.340
Use these tools.

536
00:46:59.730 --> 00:47:01.290
And understand like

537
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:03.810
orchestration and fleet management and that sort of

538
00:47:03.810 --> 00:47:10.350
Stuff because we're still substantially thinking it thinking of the new tools in an old way.

539
00:47:12.810 --> 00:47:17.970
Yeah, yeah. No, I, I think, I think, as I said earlier, I agree with all of that.

540
00:47:21.330 --> 00:47:30.360
I think, I think there's one at a metal layer. I've noticed that about myself in recent years is, I think, you know, when I was doing strategy.

541
00:47:31.650 --> 00:47:32.220
I learned a

542
00:47:33.930 --> 00:47:36.510
Very difficult time for me. But I learned a great deal, their

543
00:47:37.860 --> 00:47:42.690
Whole new realm of. But I think one of the bad habits that I picked up.

544
00:47:45.270 --> 00:47:49.020
I, I, and it's a blind spot that I have now that you just kind of

545
00:47:50.580 --> 00:47:53.010
I never allow myself to think

546
00:47:54.540 --> 00:48:05.550
I don't know the wording for this, but I don't allow myself you intuitive persuasion pitches that I do, or an orange thinking. So what I mean by that is

547
00:48:07.290 --> 00:48:16.830
I was like everyone's got a five year cycle, so things don't apply to a five year cycle. So you should just kind of waiting things simple things gel and then you can hop on

548
00:48:17.460 --> 00:48:24.360
Right. But of course, the whole the whole thing you should be thinking is like, well, it's dumb that you're on that five year cycle, you should not

549
00:48:26.940 --> 00:48:33.240
Wear where it's like, where it's like the way that kind of weight training myself to think is

550
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:41.220
It's sort of in terms of let's potluck use some Devops returns here. I think those in terms of some beautiful cultures.

551
00:48:41.820 --> 00:48:55.230
So what's the culture of an organization is put in place. I don't allow myself to it to continue. Right. And so in that way and that way. Like I would never think like, well, so therefore you should not be on a five year cycle. Instead, I think about

552
00:48:56.910 --> 00:49:01.470
Things that works for you, which and and I should do short, like a lot of

553
00:49:02.490 --> 00:49:11.760
A lot of how I try to argue things is based on a bit of subterfuge of, like, getting people to change that culture without so so yeah

554
00:49:12.075 --> 00:49:18.030
I think i think i think what what would be more helpful is if, as you were talking, I was thinking like

555
00:49:20.250 --> 00:49:24.840
I know it's oddly enough, true. You don't need as much as

556
00:49:26.220 --> 00:49:26.910
The for profit.

557
00:49:29.370 --> 00:49:33.420
And the days of mass, but it's always like in government.

558
00:49:34.470 --> 00:49:35.280
Organization.

559
00:49:36.390 --> 00:49:42.720
I think you still see a lot of weird experimentation, or a lot more than I see in the commercial world like in the commercial world there is

560
00:49:44.850 --> 00:49:46.860
Very much like let me just try this.

561
00:49:47.550 --> 00:50:00.210
Yeah, oddly enough enterprise commercial companies don't do that very much. No, but every now and then in government stuff. They'll just be like, like us, every none like here's a new website that looks really cool.

562
00:50:02.970 --> 00:50:14.760
Yeah, and you know, so one, I think what what what we would like is in some way to change the culture to say

563
00:50:15.420 --> 00:50:33.360
80% I think that Italian division. But when we're like 80% of your time it's been on just running stuff right yeah a little more conservative but it's important to spend 20% of your time and trying out weird new things and then there was get sucked back into the right and yeah

564
00:50:33.630 --> 00:50:41.310
And it's notoriously hard to do this but you just like you just have to like fun things that way instead of the organization and

565
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:45.720
And still plumbing why

566
00:50:46.980 --> 00:50:52.740
It's so hard that set that organization up because if you go read the literature.

567
00:51:03.750 --> 00:51:04.290
Every or

568
00:51:05.610 --> 00:51:08.760
Not innovate never really are.

569
00:51:09.990 --> 00:51:14.190
Just sort of taken it for granted that like, Well, what's going to happen tonight.

570
00:51:15.210 --> 00:51:27.000
That people just perpetuate doing the same thing over and over again and no organization tolerance to try out new things and integrate the backend steady state things and so like

571
00:51:29.370 --> 00:51:39.810
So like, there's not really a reason for that. And there's no spreadsheet that prove that it just sort of the way that people operate. And so it is

572
00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:54.420
Is really weird to me that people wouldn't think like, well, we're going to spend 20% of our time is budget, just like trying out lackadaisical new things and and by wacky doodle. I don't mean useless. Just like let's let's send the like.

573
00:51:55.530 --> 00:51:58.530
A year, looking at a problem that we have and try

574
00:52:00.870 --> 00:52:05.820
Different ways of solving the problem. And the problem. Right. Yeah.

575
00:52:07.200 --> 00:52:07.470
And

576
00:52:08.100 --> 00:52:22.200
I also think that that's the environment has changed. So even as as close as recently as, say, five years ago, six years ago that idea of production software and that

577
00:52:22.230 --> 00:52:24.540
In and wacky experimentation was

578
00:52:24.570 --> 00:52:34.230
Very separated and the staff was very separated as well. So you in some organizations, you'd have production software people and then you'd have a big gap.

579
00:52:34.560 --> 00:52:51.060
And need to have like the R amp D team or something like that. And they would be working on stuff that the production people look to scan sets and thought, well, you know, we're never going to be using that. Or we might, but you know in in five years or something like that. Now,

580
00:52:51.690 --> 00:52:53.010
It really feels

581
00:52:53.100 --> 00:52:53.760
To me.

582
00:52:54.180 --> 00:52:58.080
Like that gap has closed so much that

583
00:52:59.430 --> 00:53:00.300
R amp D.

584
00:53:00.600 --> 00:53:04.980
Is basically reading the last email you got from Jeff bar.

585
00:53:06.330 --> 00:53:06.930
And it's just

586
00:53:07.590 --> 00:53:10.290
It whatever whatever his smiling face is on

587
00:53:10.830 --> 00:53:18.870
You can call the R amp D but Amazon are charging people money for this this week. And to me, that doesn't

588
00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:21.150
That doesn't feel like R amp D.

589
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:25.140
That feels like using the tools that are now on sale.

590
00:53:27.150 --> 00:53:27.660
Yeah.

591
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:29.100
So the

592
00:53:30.750 --> 00:53:33.030
The approach to me feels much more like

593
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:38.640
Like a pipeline like kind of acquisition pipeline, then

594
00:53:38.910 --> 00:53:39.810
It's not, it's not an

595
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:40.740
arm's length thing.

596
00:53:40.830 --> 00:53:58.260
At all. It's basically okay it's like scouts, really, you know, you send out scouts in front of your army or something like that to look at the, look at the environment that you're going to be in not looking at the environment that you're not going to be in because you are going to environment.

597
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:01.350
Yeah yeah you know

598
00:54:03.060 --> 00:54:10.740
Let me, let me, despite the fact that I don't allow myself to think, Oh, this is a good example of like how I don't normally allow myself to

599
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:18.300
Persuade persuade a weird word but like the thought leader as it work, right. So it seems like

600
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:35.670
The reason. One of the reasons, things were so slow. In the past, and it right like you have to be on the float by goals and there wasn't that much experimentation and that it wasn't the 8020 split the queen like running the business and just trying out lackadaisical new thing was because

601
00:54:36.810 --> 00:54:46.800
It was expensive and error prone. Like it just like it didn't work and you had to spend a lot of money. So when you make the word. We don't want it.

602
00:54:47.460 --> 00:55:02.010
Right, like, yo, yes, yes, it does it cost a lot of money to buy all those foreign and your Oracle database and like if things go wrong. And just very practical and you know there's that famous chart from

603
00:55:03.570 --> 00:55:11.190
I think it was Jesse Robbins, who at one point was the code to and your sister Riley radar, you know,

604
00:55:12.630 --> 00:55:14.670
The secret weapon now and it's

605
00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:26.220
Been all made up, but like, you know, here's, here's one side and it takes like configure a server, a few days. Like if you don't buy

606
00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:37.110
And if you buy chef, it'll take like you know 30 seconds and go like removing this like this, drag it frees up all these resources, not only

607
00:55:37.560 --> 00:55:47.370
Not only resources been done other stuff, but it make innovating a lot safer and analysis we. It's sort of like it evening for me sitting here in Austin.

608
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:57.240
To record this podcast, the SP things and think about how large organizations and profit, because I don't have to worry about being killed by

609
00:55:58.200 --> 00:56:05.400
Or how I'm going to get rid of all the theses from my house. Yes. Or like, you know, getting food like. There's just, there's an infrastructure.

610
00:56:05.790 --> 00:56:16.200
That is taking care. Um, so I can focus on these other things. And again, it's not only about. It's like, I don't have to worry about those things. So I have the table. And so one can posit

611
00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:18.570
That all this great clouds.

612
00:56:20.370 --> 00:56:28.110
removed all of that, metaphorically speaking, I guess. Yeah, removed having to worry about all that stuff and it frees up your time.

613
00:56:28.710 --> 00:56:41.460
And also make the paper to experiment more right so you can actually get to that point where you're trying out new things and it takes to do that. And then, so maybe that and then that gets you to this.

614
00:56:43.410 --> 00:56:43.890
Is like

615
00:56:45.330 --> 00:56:51.330
There's all these new technologies like every, every time I go to the grocery store. I've just learned how to make this thing.

616
00:56:51.840 --> 00:57:02.790
And now there's all this other stuff that I could be learning to like keep coming out with all this stuff and I can't keep up with doing the thing which which i think i think the way

617
00:57:04.560 --> 00:57:05.670
And the analogy of

618
00:57:05.730 --> 00:57:10.290
Food break them, but I feel like maybe what should happen in that case is

619
00:57:11.340 --> 00:57:17.640
Is it's fine to try out all these new things and to do whatever just bar says right

620
00:57:17.730 --> 00:57:17.970
Yeah.

621
00:57:20.460 --> 00:57:30.000
But you sort of life, there's a, there's a, a qualification that individual eating from that. But they have to make. And that is, like, do you understand

622
00:57:30.630 --> 00:57:44.490
What we're doing here. Like, do you understand the business that we're in. Yeah, service that we're providing like the data we're dealing with, like, do you understand the whole point of the outcomes that what you're doing right and so you understand is that

623
00:57:45.630 --> 00:57:57.840
The spirit. You can interview you want but like you have to like, like, like what would like like it. Let's say my favorite example if we were in the insurance business.

624
00:57:58.890 --> 00:58:06.390
And you are in charge of not in charge of but what you currently work on any given individual or team is

625
00:58:08.010 --> 00:58:14.250
Helping the weight. Nothing clean. But if I get a car wreck someone were

626
00:58:15.270 --> 00:58:22.560
To come out in the damage to my car and then give them estimate of the amount of money that I have my carpet.

627
00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:28.530
And so if you're the people who work for, I think there's a claims adjuster. I forget. But, you know, yeah. First News Service.

628
00:58:29.400 --> 00:58:36.420
Yeah, yeah, here's a person who services that I want to make sure that you understand that what they need and how we do our business.

629
00:58:36.900 --> 00:58:47.010
And then you can just go to town with your, your debt bar platform but I mean I feel like there are an infinite amount of tools available.

630
00:58:47.520 --> 00:58:57.930
Then it's less important that you're an expert at the tool and it's more important that you're an expert at the problem that you're solving for the business logic and

631
00:58:59.310 --> 00:59:00.600
I think, I think there's the

632
00:59:00.750 --> 00:59:04.050
The thing that goes together with the

633
00:59:05.640 --> 00:59:08.940
The knowledge is designed desire and

634
00:59:09.450 --> 00:59:10.500
This is something don't come back to

635
00:59:10.500 --> 00:59:11.040
A lot

636
00:59:11.340 --> 00:59:11.700
Is

637
00:59:12.930 --> 00:59:25.350
Being in a meeting and thinking to myself, I want something here and looking at other people in a meeting and thinking they don't seem to want to nothing. And without it, it's

638
00:59:26.550 --> 00:59:26.730
It's

639
00:59:27.030 --> 00:59:35.220
Like you know i'm not saying this is always the case. And I'm not saying that. What I want is good, necessarily, but that is a

640
00:59:36.690 --> 00:59:49.200
You know, it doesn't if if we work in insurance. What you want might be to keep your job and to have the company making more money next year. That's a perfectly reasonable thing to want, but someone has to

641
00:59:49.290 --> 00:59:50.310
Actually want it.

642
00:59:51.090 --> 01:00:01.800
Even there even that low level kind of mass Lafayette idea. Someone has to want their otherwise known in that building is going to be actually working towards it, if no one wants

643
01:00:01.860 --> 01:00:04.470
That no one's going to be told to do it.

644
01:00:05.220 --> 01:00:06.240
And it's like, well,

645
01:00:06.720 --> 01:00:07.680
That's that's

646
01:00:07.710 --> 01:00:08.880
That's how you go bust.

647
01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:10.770
And, you know, it can be

648
01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:11.430
Kind of grand

649
01:00:11.610 --> 01:00:13.350
grand ideas like you know

650
01:00:13.380 --> 01:00:20.100
All of human knowledge available to everybody, blah, blah, blah. That kind of stuff. Or it could be relatively straightforward. It could be. I want to make

651
01:00:20.700 --> 01:00:32.460
The best wholemeal bagels in this city and I want to make lots of money doing it. Yeah, fine. That's great. The one thing is absolutely key in a lot of these situations of

652
01:00:33.090 --> 01:00:44.970
Looking around and thinking, well, I have lots of colleagues who are very clever, but they have to want something. And that's not that's not that's beyond sticking carrot. I think that's

653
01:00:46.590 --> 01:00:49.350
That's, that's not just a we're here to do a job.

654
01:00:50.220 --> 01:00:55.320
It's something more than that. And I can't quite put my finger on it, apart from just using that word desire.

655
01:00:56.670 --> 01:00:57.750
Yeah, well, I

656
01:00:59.940 --> 01:01:03.000
Think one is like, I mean it sounds so cheesy as

657
01:01:06.090 --> 01:01:14.700
Hell, but like that's what leadership and vision. Like it again, like those. Those words are like all difficult for yeah

658
01:01:15.900 --> 01:01:19.320
But, but that is that is what the job.

659
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:23.850
You want to be off and then

660
01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:28.290
They got they got the job.

661
01:01:29.670 --> 01:01:41.280
Or whatever, to say, use your analogy. We're going to make the best multi grain, things like that is our mission and and yeah, there's so many things they need to be able to break it down into like

662
01:01:41.910 --> 01:01:57.210
Well, here's what a bagel and then meeting the multi threading bagels and like what what with what I, what I would call this strategy right like once we, how do we get a multi grain bagel and how do we get paid for multi bring bagel or

663
01:01:59.010 --> 01:01:59.880
Otherwise, I mean,

664
01:02:01.410 --> 01:02:07.290
You could almost drive a definition of art, which is just like I would like to create multiple

665
01:02:08.580 --> 01:02:14.370
With there's no business there. It's just like you've done the craft it up or done artistically create the best

666
01:02:15.690 --> 01:02:23.070
But if you want to make a business out of it or or in the nonprofit world. If you want to satisfy service that you're providing the whatever your

667
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:25.230
Link

668
01:02:26.700 --> 01:02:31.440
To have the leader who's like the one who would like we do multi grain bagel. Like, that's what we do.

669
01:02:32.370 --> 01:02:42.690
We're going to go about doing not doing it and and then and then their job and also depending on the size of the organization. They have to, like, make sure the organization has the resources.

670
01:02:44.130 --> 01:02:46.320
That and those resources are basically like

671
01:02:48.360 --> 01:03:02.580
Knowledge money and managers, you know that the structure of the organization. Depending on the size, you have to have people who are like that, and all that stuff. And then there's there's a fourth one which is sort of like a

672
01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:06.150
Like a thorny to do a good job.

673
01:03:07.860 --> 01:03:11.970
I don't know what that is, but like they have to be able to do that. And so, I think. Yeah.

674
01:03:13.740 --> 01:03:16.320
And I think that's an issue really most

675
01:03:18.045 --> 01:03:19.320
Most every

676
01:03:19.620 --> 01:03:24.600
Large organization nine. I'm going to talk with with they suffer from it, like they don't

677
01:03:25.620 --> 01:03:28.380
They don't know how to do that.

678
01:03:32.490 --> 01:03:34.800
Especially in it because if he has

679
01:03:36.300 --> 01:03:44.010
It outside of the software world. It has never been run like that, if we go all the way back to the queen, I

680
01:03:46.050 --> 01:03:48.810
It's all about responding to requests for something

681
01:03:52.230 --> 01:03:52.860
So, yeah.

682
01:03:57.810 --> 01:03:59.610
And then, and then the second thing I was thinking

683
01:03:59.970 --> 01:04:00.780
There's actually

684
01:04:01.800 --> 01:04:06.570
You know, I don't really like like your client show anymore. I find that guy.

685
01:04:08.250 --> 01:04:14.790
And meeting other people like them and it's totally fine. Yeah. In the same way that I don't like the way some stuff.

686
01:04:18.030 --> 01:04:28.440
But there's, there's the most recent episode with some guy from the American Enterprise Institute, the first 15 minutes are really good. I was thinking of even getting a transcript because they just

687
01:04:29.610 --> 01:04:33.660
They talk about the struggle of being a creative and having to be

688
01:04:35.010 --> 01:04:37.290
And like how that very difficult and how they

689
01:04:38.520 --> 01:04:42.330
Yes, yes. If you don't, if you don't often have people like that.

690
01:04:47.820 --> 01:04:51.120
But yeah, I mean, I think that's the problem with a lot of this stuff is just like

691
01:04:52.800 --> 01:04:55.110
So we don't know what

692
01:04:56.640 --> 01:05:03.960
One of the leaders don't really, they don't know the mechanics of doing their job, they kind of know what they should be doing and

693
01:05:05.820 --> 01:05:08.610
I think the other side is like the fat doesn't know how to

694
01:05:10.770 --> 01:05:20.550
They don't, they're not. It's like you're saying right there in that room. And it's not just that they don't know what they're supposed to be doing. They don't actually want

695
01:05:21.480 --> 01:05:22.080
Yep, yep.

696
01:05:22.140 --> 01:05:22.350
Yep.

697
01:05:23.490 --> 01:05:24.030
I mean, though.

698
01:05:25.980 --> 01:05:27.990
Yeah, they'll do if they're directly instructed

699
01:05:27.990 --> 01:05:30.450
To do it and you know because that

700
01:05:30.510 --> 01:05:32.220
That they're paid to do that.

701
01:05:32.610 --> 01:05:37.410
But the, the, the interesting gap there is almost like

702
01:05:38.610 --> 01:05:51.060
wanting something that desire. I mean, this feels a bit Seth Godin like almost feels like a rubber that's not our job. We're not here to want stuff we're, we're here to

703
01:05:52.860 --> 01:05:56.400
exert our professional knowledge on something.

704
01:05:56.940 --> 01:05:57.930
And my point is

705
01:05:57.960 --> 01:05:58.290
Yeah.

706
01:05:58.590 --> 01:06:01.530
But what's the something, you know, we're not we're not just

707
01:06:02.700 --> 01:06:06.540
We're not just. We can't just be doing what we did last week.

708
01:06:07.590 --> 01:06:12.720
Where we can, but that you run out of Runway relatively quickly. You, you

709
01:06:12.810 --> 01:06:15.450
Do need to be actually wanting something

710
01:06:15.900 --> 01:06:16.320
And

711
01:06:17.895 --> 01:06:18.480
I

712
01:06:18.780 --> 01:06:19.230
I

713
01:06:20.250 --> 01:06:40.350
I think that thing of balancing those inputs and also at the kind of CEO level, the responsibility for joining them together, not just balancing them, but actually getting them, you know, getting your whole organization to work as a product team is is desirable and

714
01:06:41.130 --> 01:06:42.090
Rarely present

715
01:06:42.390 --> 01:06:48.630
So you do get those instances like you were saying of someone who feels that they're very creative having to be

716
01:06:49.140 --> 01:07:02.580
Kind of hard line CEO, but also you get the other way round, you get people who are very good at being a kind of classic technical manager who suddenly are being asked to be creative and so

717
01:07:03.090 --> 01:07:03.270
That

718
01:07:03.450 --> 01:07:04.800
You get the you get the

719
01:07:04.890 --> 01:07:16.470
The, the pool in the other direction. And quite often, even when it's recognized that gap isn't filled and then you have that situation where you know there's there's

720
01:07:17.160 --> 01:07:23.100
There's such a lack of desire that you have people in organization who are working professionally but almost

721
01:07:24.090 --> 01:07:31.590
treading water and you think, well, that's why that is because there isn't any. There isn't any desire. There isn't any way forward push

722
01:07:31.890 --> 01:07:46.710
And I mean that in most abstract sense. I'm not saying that you know that design needs to be saved the world or anything like that. It could be anything. It could be making better car tires. It could just be making cheaper car tires. But there needs to be something that

723
01:07:47.880 --> 01:07:55.530
You know, the vast majority of your staff have fixed in their mind of this is where we're heading, even the most broad

724
01:07:55.530 --> 01:07:56.220
Sense, I think.

725
01:07:57.780 --> 01:07:59.430
Yeah yeah yeah I think

726
01:08:01.350 --> 01:08:04.620
I find I find that point like really frustrating.

727
01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:08.340
Through and I agree with it. And it sounds like such.

728
01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:10.050
Right, like, yeah.

729
01:08:10.290 --> 01:08:10.680
Yeah yeah

730
01:08:12.030 --> 01:08:21.060
I become. I don't know. I don't know if I even become but just by association business culture. It's just like so cynical about like

731
01:08:21.780 --> 01:08:33.780
Vision and all that stuff. Yeah. But if it is. I mean, over the past like three or so years, and then also also having worked with other organizations like you can you can really feel like

732
01:08:35.790 --> 01:08:40.590
The effect of good good vision and leadership and strategy and you can feel the opposite of

733
01:08:42.870 --> 01:08:44.340
Strategy and yes like

734
01:08:45.360 --> 01:08:48.720
I think I think now like one to the other side.

735
01:08:50.610 --> 01:08:50.790
Yeah.

736
01:08:51.810 --> 01:09:03.930
I can almost like in the same way that you could, I could probably eyeball a steak and figure out if I'm on either not like, yeah. And, like you, I only need a little bit of interacting with an organization. They're like, dude, or

737
01:09:08.610 --> 01:09:19.620
Like, like, like I'm thinking, in particular, like, and all of you, like all of your respect, like all your things they're only accurate like 20 to 30% of the time or something. But I remember

738
01:09:21.180 --> 01:09:23.220
I was, I was at like a pivotal event.

739
01:09:25.200 --> 01:09:33.600
And there was a Ford person who was giving a talk and it was in Chinese, but I was looking to a translation and seeing five and it was it was a great

740
01:09:35.400 --> 01:09:44.100
Holy, Holy, this company knows what they're going to be doing right now. Yes. Now with someone like for it like it's so big and has such a history of like labor relations.

741
01:09:45.540 --> 01:10:01.350
That's its own sort of ecosystem, but it was representative of like this company. And we do this presentation knows exactly who they are and like what it is need is the wrong word, they know what they want, what they think they need to be doing.

742
01:10:01.710 --> 01:10:14.610
Yeah, and they, they, in the IT department. They started out with me. Right. You know, I see that in some organizations and other ones and the opposite of that is like you go talk to an IT organization and they just sort of

743
01:10:16.080 --> 01:10:17.400
They're doing some form

744
01:10:17.550 --> 01:10:26.250
They're either doing just like we want things to be cheaper or they're doing like what we used to call resume driven development or they're just like

745
01:10:26.670 --> 01:10:39.660
We want to use this new thing. And you're sort of like, well, why, and they're like, we want to use the new thing, it'll be better instead of sort of starting off with like we, the way that we want to change our business and interact with us.

746
01:10:41.820 --> 01:10:53.220
Yes, and I think it would be nice. It would be easy to say that like the people shouldn't be having that conversation. But I think that's the whole point is like, yes, they should like yeah

747
01:10:53.250 --> 01:11:04.440
The way that the way that I think people should be innovative, is to think about how they're innovating, which is a grandiose claims, but they could just be thinking about, like,

748
01:11:05.640 --> 01:11:06.480
How they innovate.

749
01:11:07.680 --> 01:11:11.940
In there, yeah. Yeah, right. Like, yes, like how you know they might think like

750
01:11:12.990 --> 01:11:16.710
Like, I don't know, maybe instead of a hierarchy, we should have

751
01:11:18.420 --> 01:11:24.030
Like all these 2.0 right like yes yeah just thinking about how you would how you make your life.

752
01:11:25.380 --> 01:11:27.210
And then finally, I think my

753
01:11:28.380 --> 01:11:28.800
Battery.

754
01:11:34.320 --> 01:11:36.030
Is might be the least worst

755
01:11:36.120 --> 01:11:37.290
Podcast. We've done

756
01:11:42.510 --> 01:11:42.840
Yeah.

757
01:11:44.700 --> 01:11:49.050
But I think, you know, this brings up another theory and I've been knocking around in my head is, I think,

758
01:11:50.520 --> 01:12:01.200
And I alluded to it with his resume driven development. I don't know about you, but I think I was brought up as a technology from all the stages of programming, they would say things like

759
01:12:02.280 --> 01:12:05.340
You should never do to it. It's we use technology.

760
01:12:06.840 --> 01:12:15.390
We shouldn't you should use the right tool for the job and all this kind of stuff. And I think, I think that is another notion that maybe is not as fully corrected that you

761
01:12:18.060 --> 01:12:24.180
Probably should fortuitously experiment with technologies and see if they work because, again, that like

762
01:12:25.290 --> 01:12:43.080
You don't have to go like worrying about receiving yeah yeah all this extra capacity and safety to actually just sort of like, I don't know if this is useful, but let's try it out like you as as just our talks about stuff. We should just we should do the research to view but

763
01:12:44.550 --> 01:12:50.010
Yeah, not, not, not as a better technology, but to improving the users that were

764
01:12:51.750 --> 01:12:54.060
Is there some way we could apply this that would make

765
01:12:57.090 --> 01:12:57.570
Yeah.

766
01:12:57.630 --> 01:13:07.230
I think one of one of the problems and yes I and I hear the word. Finally, one of the problems that we are going to have to continue this or some other day. One of the problems I think

767
01:13:07.800 --> 01:13:14.490
That I perceive is some of the language is still the language that was applicable, say, five or 10 years ago so

768
01:13:15.510 --> 01:13:16.260
I think it's

769
01:13:16.350 --> 01:13:22.560
It's less it's less experimentation and it is more scouting it's more

770
01:13:23.220 --> 01:13:25.710
Yeah, it's more preparation in a way

771
01:13:25.980 --> 01:13:43.170
So if you're a relatively large organization and you're using. I don't know slack and Yammer and something else, you should be looking at Microsoft Teams, you should have some stuff on Microsoft Teams. So you know what you're talking about. Because that's not

772
01:13:43.320 --> 01:13:43.740
That's not

773
01:13:44.160 --> 01:13:58.350
That's not wacky that's like, look, this time next year your entire department, maybe shifting over to that because it's a good idea and you should have done it earlier, but the only way you're going to know is by actually doing it and

774
01:13:58.410 --> 01:14:00.300
That, to me, doesn't feel like

775
01:14:00.810 --> 01:14:10.860
Old Style experimentation. That's not like hey let's rewrite over the enclosure. That's look Microsoft of trying to sell us something. Maybe we should look at.

776
01:14:11.910 --> 01:14:12.930
And that doesn't mean you should

777
01:14:13.140 --> 01:14:15.120
necessarily follow every vendor.

778
01:14:15.570 --> 01:14:18.570
But it seems to be more of a kind of push model.

779
01:14:19.830 --> 01:14:21.000
Than a pull one I think.

780
01:14:22.590 --> 01:14:25.650
Yeah, yeah. No, I think that's accurate.

781
01:14:34.710 --> 01:14:36.870
Repeat the pointed it is it is still like

782
01:14:38.340 --> 01:14:44.610
When a life mystery to me why organizations don't function that right like how why they

783
01:14:45.690 --> 01:15:02.430
Why they allow themselves to get stuck in that state where they don't they don't innovate because it's just like, it's just like is provable throughout the history of man, that if you only do the thing that works over and over again.

784
01:15:04.380 --> 01:15:04.620
Yeah.

785
01:15:05.220 --> 01:15:08.340
Right. Like, like you have to, you have to evolve and

786
01:15:09.870 --> 01:15:12.840
There's like there's, I don't know.

787
01:15:13.980 --> 01:15:15.330
There's no argument against that.

788
01:15:15.750 --> 01:15:15.990
Yeah.

789
01:15:17.430 --> 01:15:19.440
It's just the truth next episode.

790
01:15:20.130 --> 01:15:21.660
Innovation, why not

791
01:15:24.210 --> 01:15:27.960
Very well let me let me leave off with one one recommendation.

792
01:15:30.450 --> 01:15:32.460
They approach is that right approved.

793
01:15:33.360 --> 01:15:33.930
You say,

794
01:15:34.140 --> 01:15:34.890
Well, after pulse.

795
01:15:35.610 --> 01:15:35.820
Yeah.

796
01:15:37.980 --> 01:15:38.460
Proposed

797
01:15:40.230 --> 01:15:40.440
Yeah.

798
01:15:40.500 --> 01:15:45.240
There's, there's a great. There's a great venerable book and venerable the great word

799
01:15:48.570 --> 01:15:51.270
As bait venerable is a polite way is a very

800
01:15:54.030 --> 01:16:03.270
What's the word when you sort of like honor someone, it's an honorific way of things, something yeah so difficult to like describe something even mature nowadays.

801
01:16:04.830 --> 01:16:17.400
There's a venerable book called The meeting change. And it's not about it or anything, but it has, it has a pretty good framework for thinking through how you there would imply how if you want to change organization when

802
01:16:19.170 --> 01:16:33.960
And it's a good example of like the way I don't allow myself to think like if you read through that book and I haven't read the article is based on, but I think the article, the same way. There is absolutely no proof of any of the argument in the book.

803
01:16:35.310 --> 01:16:45.420
Like there's no, like, there is no there's no proof. It's just all the balls statements and then some halo effect up of like this organization at that

804
01:16:45.810 --> 01:16:52.950
And here's some anonymize anecdotal someone doing this, I can just like no proof of anything but you read through it and it all makes sense and

805
01:16:58.680 --> 01:16:59.220
That's right.

806
01:17:01.170 --> 01:17:02.520
Okay, yeah, yeah.

807
01:17:03.600 --> 01:17:08.580
It's a great book. And I would recommend anyone who were like

808
01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:13.800
And like I said, there are very

809
01:17:17.850 --> 01:17:30.090
Well, that goes on the list and and I should have a recommendation. What I have a couple of recommendations in a strange way. One is I've taken to drinking coffee without milk and

810
01:17:31.500 --> 01:17:31.890
Yep.

811
01:17:31.980 --> 01:17:34.530
Yep. Now, and then I do indulge and

812
01:17:34.620 --> 01:17:43.140
I'm I'm enjoying I'm really enjoying that. And another is, I don't know if you're into this but water filters. Do you use water filters.

813
01:17:44.370 --> 01:17:48.780
Now, and would like me, but I, I am on the school.

814
01:17:50.040 --> 01:17:55.500
I play a lot of money for the city. Yep. You get fresh water out of the tap. Yep, I'm going to get that. Yeah.

815
01:17:55.860 --> 01:17:56.820
So the

816
01:17:57.030 --> 01:18:02.400
Tap water from the Thames basically here and the filtered water.

817
01:18:03.600 --> 01:18:07.440
Definitely tastes different. I'm not going to say one's better.

818
01:18:07.740 --> 01:18:08.370
I just

819
01:18:08.880 --> 01:18:17.820
I know they taste different, and I know that when I use the filtered water in the capital here, it doesn't get all the limescale on it.

820
01:18:18.300 --> 01:18:19.950
Presumably because they're filtered water is

821
01:18:19.950 --> 01:18:21.180
Like distilled or something.

822
01:18:21.960 --> 01:18:22.620
But the the

823
01:18:23.190 --> 01:18:24.540
The recommendation is

824
01:18:24.960 --> 01:18:30.480
If you want to try it out and you don't to spend loads of money on it, you know. There's a company called Britta be

825
01:18:32.370 --> 01:18:33.750
Who make filters.

826
01:18:33.840 --> 01:18:40.110
And there's one on Amazon now for nine pounds 99 with a filter in it.

827
01:18:41.250 --> 01:18:54.900
And the design looks terrible. It looks absolutely dreadful you think it's going to fall apart and be but it's fine. It's absolutely fine. In fact is better than some of their earlier more expensive designs. It's got no handle

828
01:18:55.260 --> 01:18:56.010
Minutes, like a

829
01:18:56.040 --> 01:19:01.710
Like a big jug type thing that you can put in the fridge is great, really good.

830
01:19:02.280 --> 01:19:09.720
Ah, not send the link to that. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have. I don't have anything to get filtered water.

831
01:19:11.280 --> 01:19:13.020
But I agree the water take different

832
01:19:14.610 --> 01:19:19.290
Filter and so they must be going yes food, who knows.

833
01:19:19.590 --> 01:19:20.070
Who

834
01:19:22.080 --> 01:19:22.410
Will

835
01:19:24.120 --> 01:19:29.340
Talk to you next time. And yes, wait, no. No way. I will talk with you next time.

836
01:19:32.760 --> 01:19:33.030
Okay.