#TrendingJewish Podcast Episode 1: It Sounds Like Judaism in SpaceEpisode 1 Subscribe at https://trendingjewish.fireside.fm [music] Rachel Burgess: So that was "Mah Oz Tzur" by Leiah Moser right here at the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College. Welcome to our first podcast of #TrendingJewish. Leiah Moser: Actually it was "Ma Tovu." RB: Ma Tovu, I'm sorry. LM: Sorry. [chuckle] Bryan Schwartzman: That's why you're the rabbi. LM: I'm sure we can correct this in post. That's okay, right? I can deal... RB: Right. [laughter] [chuckle] RB: So that was Ma Tovu by... [laughter] LM: Way to go Bryan. Thanks for jumping in there. [laughter] RB: Ma Tovu? LM: Ma Tovu. RB: Okay. That was Ma Tovu by Leiah Moser right here at the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College in Wyncote, Pennsylvania. This is #TrendingJewish. I'm Rachael Burgess from the RRC Communications Department here with my colleague Bryan Schwartzman. BS: Hello, Rachael. RB: Hello, Bryan. [chuckle] BS: We don't know if that's gonna be a thing, it might be a thing. We'll see, we've got a Seinfeld thing going on here. LM: What? Saying hello to each other? BS: Yeah. [laughter] BS: Yeah, I know right. Who would have thought? LM: Or you mean like the Newman Thing. BS: I think it's like the Newman Thing. It wasn't... LM: Okay. BS: Didn't have enough bite to it to be the Newman Thing. LM: Right. It needs more hate, I feel, there's more hate that needs to happen there. BS: Hello Rachael. [laughter] RB: This is our first podcast for #TrendingJewish. So, we figured that if Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David could make a semi-Jewish show about nothing, we could make a Jewish podcast about everything. BS: Right. And we think with our first guest, we might not be able to talk about everything, but we might be able to come pretty close. We are thrilled to have Leiah Moser with us as our first guest on the premier inaugural episode of #TrendingJewish. In, as of this recording, in just a little more than a month, Leiah will graduate from the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College and become a rabbi. Leiah is a teacher and student of Talmud and Kabbalah, a philosopher, a musician specializing in Electronica, as we've heard. Also speaks fluent Japanese, and lately has been experimenting with combining her teaching and love of Judaism with electronic music in ways you've just heard. I think I said before we went on, that it sounded like Judaism from another planet, [chuckle] which... In a good way, and recently Leiah actually led morning services here using some of her equipment and instruments and compositions and it was a prayer experience like I've never been part of before. So, welcome to the show. Thank you for kicking us off. I guess I'll say I don't have a musical bone in my body, but if I did, I feel like I would dream about bashing a drum kit or shredding guitar. [chuckle] So how does one think about, "Oh, I wanna put sequences and computers together to make music in this fashion?" LM: Sure. Well, thanks Bryan. I just wanna say also thanks very much for having me on your podcast. This is really exciting to be helping kick this off, so yeah. Okay, I think my first real exposure to electronic music was when I was in high school. Before that, I think like a lot of kids growing up in the 90s, I was very into alternative rock and grunge, and that was kind of my assumption about what music was. And then, I was exposed to a track called "Cowgirl" by a band called Underworld, which was on the soundtrack of that one movie that came out in the 90s, "Hackers," it was really hilarious. Says absolutely nothing true about computers, which was wonderful about 90s' stuff about computers. But, I heard this track with its unbelievable layering of natural and unnatural sounds and the manipulation of sound as something that you could reach in and sculpt and manipulate like clay. And the repetitive rhythms, and just the sheer, joyful sonic experimentation of it. And I just fell in love with the genre, and just couldn't get enough of it. So, back then, I had a number of friends who shared the same love of electronic music. We got together and we formed a little musical group where we would get together in one of our apartment in one our rooms in their home and we'd make music. We had an old 486 DOS computer. And we would make tracks using that, and we made a whole tape, and we would pass it out to our friends, and that was a lot of fun. And so, my interest really kind of continued on from there, and it was just always something that I loved to do. I think, partially because just the quality of the music was very inspiring to me, and also because the method of making the music is just one that really works well for me. It involves approximately equal parts kind of musical inspiration and virtuosity, and heavy processing power of crunching numbers and programming, and getting the rhythms right, and working out loops, and adjusting samples. And so just for me at least, the marriage of computers and music is a very productive connection, and it's just always been one that gave me a lot of joy. BS: And to show my unhipness, what do we call this? Is this IDM, Electronica? I've heard there are all these names. I don't know, what's the correct one? LM: Back in the '90s there was this crazy proliferation of electronic music genres. What started in the '80s with house and industrial music kind of blossomed out in the '90s into house and industrial, and drum and bass, and jungle, and trance, and IDM, intelligent dance music. And there were a million... Rave, happy hardcore rave, regular hardcore rave. There was an unbelievable proliferation of musical genres, all of which kind of focused on the basic concept of heavy rhythms, repetitive synth lines. And for me, I think, at this point, I don't really stick to a particular electronic music genre. So for me, I tend to just lump it all under the category of electronic music, some of which is electronic dance music and some of which, I guess, probably harkens back a little more toward the sort of sonic experimentations of bands like Tangerine Dream back in the '70s. For me, I tend to lump it all into the big pile of Electronica because I don't really feel a need sort of to limit myself to one particular genre. Especially because, this is something that I do hopefully to kind of create a mood in a davenning context, and for me, what kind of music I'm doing is hopefully gonna be very connected to the kind of mood and the kind of spiritual place that I wanna get to in davenning. RB: What's really interesting, especially the traditional ways of thinking about davenning is something that's very quiet, and very soulful and it's like you're in a very quiet environment, there is some singing. But how do you mix that with the synthesizing, with the bass, with the drums, how do those go together? LM: Sure. I think for one thing that, when it comes to davenning, there's actually a range of social and emotional places that we are in throughout the davenning experience. So, there's moments for intensely, private, personal prayer that are built into the traditional Jewish prayer service. There's the Amidah where we often start out reading out loud or speaking out loud together, but we usually end up in a place of silent prayer. There's Tachanun, which is, once again, a place of silent prayer and reflection. But there's also things like Pesukei d'Zimra, which are frequently moments of ecstatic communal singing. And actually for me, this kind of music can serve as an aid for both of those places and everything in between. But it really depends on how you're using it and also I think on the personality. So for me, one of the most interesting things about, quote unquote, "traditional electronic music" that really draws me in is the sort of repetitive element of a lot of the themes. You frequently have a loop that's being repeated over and over with minor variations. And for me, and for many people who have experienced... Many people experience that kind of music as somewhat trance inducing. There's a reason why an entire genre of electronic music is called trance. I think there's really a way for the music, if selected and played well, to draw a person into a place of inwardness and reflection. And there's also ways in which music can create group energy where everybody is singing together and really being spiritually extroverted and just throwing all their energy out there into the universe. So yeah. I think that when I use this in a liturgical context, I try to draw a distinction between... I try to discern what are the emotional and spiritual modes of each particular phase of the service. And what, if any, are the musical supports that can aid that mode of prayer space? BS: There did seem to be a little bit of an unforgiving aspect of it. There are four beats per minute, there's no... The computer can't sense the mood of the room, or slow down or speed up. And for people who are not musical, is that a challenge for keeping up with? LM: No, that's true and that is something that I've noticed especially... At this point I think very few people are used to using this kind of music in a congregational space. And so there's a little bit of learning that has to be done by the congregation, because as you said it's very unforgiving rhythmically. When the prayer leader, when the shaliach tzibbur is leading a song and that's your queue for where we're at singing, then there's tremendous flexibility for the song leader to speed up, or slow down, or really hold out a note. Which can be tremendously expressive I think for... In other ways it can sometimes be kind of distracting even though, unless you're on the same wavelength as the leader, because you've got to follow along with this person up in the front. With, when you're using electronic music though you don't have that option and that's not... It is limiting in some respects and I think it's also freeing in some respects. It's limiting in the respect that you can't slow down the tempo at the end of the song to trail off. You can't hold a note beyond where the rhythmical structure would normally allow for the purposes of emphasis. But on the other hand, you've got this musical framework, that you can hang your consciousness on. And so I find that davenning to this kind of music requires a lot of the same mental process as dancing to this kind of music. When you're dancing to dance music on some level, you have to sort of give yourself to the music. You have to accept this is the rhythm and internalize that rhythm and this is my rhythm and dance to your rhythm, which is the rhythm that you are hearing. And I think when you're able to do that or if you're in a frame of mind where you're able to do that and give yourself to the music, it can really transport a person, take them out of themselves. And if you are feeling a little disconnected from the music, if it's a little weird, I don't know about this, then it can be really distracting and feel like, "Wait a minute, what's this external thing that's trying to get in on my rhythm and my internal beat?" But I think there's an element of trust there which is not dissimilar from the trust that we invest into the shaliach tzibbur. That if I'm really there with the shaliach tzibbur, then I kinda give myself to them, and I sing along with them, and I'm tuned into their wavelength. And if I'm really not there, maybe I'm really cranky, didn't have breakfast, or whatever. And [if] I'm not there then it's painful, it's like pulling teeth because I'm not there with the shaliach tzibbur. And I think with this, it's that same kind of needing to be there and needing to give yourself a little bit to the external framework. But the external framework is a little bit more objective, it's a little more computerized, which for some people can be alienating and for other people, me, it can actually be incredibly organic, and beautiful, and passionate because there's something beautiful and passionate about technology and about how we as humans interface with our technology. RB: I feel like that's also a good point to actually go onto another song that we've had the benefit of listening to as we were setting up today. And I think that really is a good example of what you were saying about adding that kind of passion and really beautiful structure that you were talking about. So, if you wouldn't mind, if you wouldn't mind playing that for us and singing for us as well. You get to sing in this one. LM: Yeah. RB: Okay. LM: Cool. So this is a version of "Esa Einai" that I wrote the tune to. I was actually... Part of the motivation for this is because the tradition, the typical Esa Einai that we tend to sing in congregational spaces is a Shlomo Carlebach melody, which is a really beautiful melody. And it's not at all surprising that it is caught on and become so powerful and common and widespread. And at the same time, Shlomo Carlebach has... There's a lot of stuff floating... Shlomo Carlebach comes with his own set of baggage when it comes to, for example, people who... There were many allegations of him mistreating or even behaving inappropriately toward congregants of his. And for people who may have experienced that before it can be, I think, triggering, to be using melodies that were created and popularized by a person who may have done the sort of things that that person themselves experienced. And so I created this is as sort of an alternative to the Carlebach melody, especially for spaces where I feel the need to be really conscious of people who may have experienced abuse at the hands of powerful people in their lives. And also, I think it's a really beautiful melody that's really wonderful to sing. So, this is my version of Esa Einai. [music] RB: I have to say that watching you sing and pressing these buttons on all of these machines, it's interesting just how you seem to go into kind of a meditative state as you're doing this. And you're very focused and you're very fluid. It's really fascinating how you're able to combine prayer with such a technical activity. LM: Yeah, no, really. And I think partially what's going on there is that it's the same kind of thing, I think, comes over me when I'm playing this music as when I'm listening to this music. That for me, even though electronic music tends to be very energetic and very powerful and very... Just wash over you, but for me at least, it's a very meditative experience, because it's one of the few things that can really just take my soul and bring it to someplace. That is really powerful for me, and why I wanted to combine that experience, with the experience of davening. And I think the other part of it is that any musician, when they're playing, especially if they play and sing at the same time, at some point enters into a place where they've kind of become one with their instrument. And I think a lot of people tend to think of electronic music as a very kind of cold and cerebral way of making music. That people think, "Oh, if I were making music with a computer, that there's no soul in that. It's very different from if you're playing a guitar." But the actual fact is that when I'm playing this kind of music, I join with my instruments in the same way that I think that a guitarist joins with their instrument, or a violinist, that you become connected with this device and it becomes an extension of you. And you're able to... And I'm able to kind of really treat it as a way of me expressing myself, not me manipulating an external device. BS: It was interesting you mentioned the word 'cerebral' 'cause I feel like one of your other great passions is the study and teaching of Talmud. And I feel like that is also sometimes thought of as a cerebral and rigid kind of enterprise. How do you balance or reconcile this artist creative side of you with the side that's passionate about Talmud? RB: You seem to do a lot of this. Even as we're talking about your music and prayer, you seem to be doing a lot of bridging it seems like, or something very cerebral, bridged to something more meaningful, so how do you do that in your Talmud work as well? LM: Well yeah, and I think for me at least, on some level I'm all about bridging in that way. I think that in some respects what religion is for, and I'm speaking about "Religion," big capital R, like all religion fundamentally, is about making connections where connections might otherwise be difficult to make. And that can be connections between a person and God, it can be a connection between one person and another person, but it can also be a connection between parts of ourselves. So back in the day when I had just graduated from the University of Chicago, I had a master's degree in philosophy and I was living in Japan, I had this moment of discovering Judaism, of reading about Judaism and finding out about Judaism. And part of what really spoke to me in that moment and inspired me to look into it further and to eventually convert and go where I am today, is precisely the fact that I suddenly realized that it was possible to live in such a way that the abstract critical reasoning part of one's soul, and the passionate yearning for connection part of one's soul were not oppositional forces constantly tugging against one another this way, that way, this way, that way. But actually they could both live in the same house in harmony and be part of the same unified experience. And for me I think it's that intuition that motivated my becoming Jewish and it's that intuition which informs the way that I approach, for example, studying Talmud. So studying Talmud requires everything from you when it comes to reasoning, when it comes to translation, when it comes to interpretation. You're using your critical faculties to the utmost of their ability, but I think really also it's a spiritual endeavor. If you're only bringing your critical faculties to the study of Talmud then... Talmud is a very high rock. It's going to break you if you don't bring more than your critical self to the text. And so for me, when I'm studying Talmud, when I'm teaching Talmud, I try to emphasize that it's not only a cerebral exercise, that it's also an exercise of our emotions, and our passions, and our spiritual, and moral longings and yearnings. And that's why the sages of blessed memory encouraged people who were studying the tradition to study in partners and with a teacher because there's something that happens in and through studying when you're making a connection with another, that cannot happen if we're stuck in that sort of self-reflective, critical kind of place. But when we can do that critical thing in connection with another and share those insights together and do the peel-pull, the push and pull of Talmudic engagement, then something happens which is greater than could be achieved simply through emotional, spiritual means or through critical, cerebral means. Something happens in the synergy between those two things which is utterly impossible to achieve by either method alone and which, in my experience, it comes close to the divine. BS: To the extent we've talked before, your feeling is the vast majority of American Jews are missing out by not knowing anything about Talmud, by never having been exposed to it. There's all the stuff in there that they're missing out, but how can they get it? Because, like you said, it demands so much of you intellectually, spiritually, knowledge-wise. LM: Yeah, I think that there is a great deal to be gained from engaging with Talmud, that I think many people in the American Jewish community in our time have not had a chance to really get a sense of what there is in Talmud, and what benefit that people could have from engaging with Talmud. And I think really one of the issues there is that, people tend to think of Talmud as a text, as a thing that someone wrote several thousand years ago, well, about 2,000 years ago, and which I'm reading what that person said, or those people said. But the thing about Talmud is that it's not so much a text just by itself, as it's a record of a process. The sages were writing down the process of them engaging in debate over what the text meant. And that it's precisely that sort of process of holy debate which is kind of encoded in the Talmud which I think we can benefit so much from in our day and age in liberal Judaism today. Because we are in a phase of change and transformation that in some sense, has been accelerating for the past several generations. And really I think is at a point where we haven't seen this much change and transformation and rupture, really, since the time of the classic rabbinic sages. And I think when it comes to figuring out how to react to that rapid transformation, then engagement with the Talmud is our best model because that's the period of time when we last engaged with the same kind of complete self-reflective overhaul about what it meant to be Jewish. And I think the rabbinic sages give us a powerful model for that. And I think it's unfortunate that we don't have more institutions in America where committed, engaged, liberal Jews can go to get access to the text in a more personal way, where they don't have to rely on their rabbi to bring back like, "This is something from the Talmud" where they can actually go to the text themselves. And thank God there's actually places that are coming to be institutions where you can get some of that experience. So we've got places like Mechon Hadar, you've got SVARA in Chicago, the Queer Talmud Yeshiva, which is really amazing and doing good work. And you've got places in Israel like BINA, which is doing amazing work, and also the Conservative Yeshiva. So there are places now that you can go to learn Talmud and get a taste of that unique experience, but I think unfortunately not enough. And I think that I sometimes feel like it really should be a greater priority for people in our generation to be forming not only synagogues and rethinking what synagogues do, but also to be thinking in terms of, what about the beit midrash? What could we do to create and foster beit midrash culture, study house culture in our communities across the country and find therein the energy and fuel for a Jewish renewal and transformation? RB: So I think pretty soon we're going to have to wrap up a little bit, but one question that I... BS: We're having so much fun. RB: I know. [chuckle] RB: But one of the things that I hear and probably experience being a Jew living in the world that we're in, that there's a lot of different barriers that keep people from, on the one hand even davenning, or going to the synagogue and going into prayer or joining a prayer group, and then studying Talmud. Sometimes the sounds of that, it almost sounds like if I'm not doing this I'm not Jewish enough, and there's something very intimidating about it, and then people are getting pulled in their many directions in life. How do you suggest, or what do you hope, even as you go on into your rabbinate, that people start connecting with some of these really classical but golden pieces of Judaism? LM: I think what I try and always tell people to do is, start with what you've got. So the great Hasidic sage, Rebbe Nachman of Bratslav, talks about important it is to... How it's very important to serve God in a variety of ways, to operate within the halakhah, to engage in prayer, to do all of the things that a Jew is supposed to do. But he says also what you're supposed to do is make some time for yourself every day to be by yourself and just pour out your heart to God. Talk to God about everything that you've got and everything that you're carrying with you, and all the stuff that's problematic for you, and just the stuff that you're really struggling with. And he says that ultimately... If you're able to do that, if you're able to at least do that thing, then even if you don't know anything about Jewish observance, even if you don't know anything about Torah, even if you don't do anything Jewish except for that, it's like that's something and it's a place to start from. And because it's something, it can stand in for and lead into all the rest. And he says, "Okay fine, but then what if you don't even have the ability to talk to God? What if you stand there before God and you don't know what to say?" He says, "Okay, fine. Start from the point of 'I don't know what to say,' and talk to God about that." And from then you'll get to the point where you can talk to God, and from then you can get to the point where you can learn other things and diversify your practice. But for me I think there's something really powerful on that about starting with what you've got and with what you know, and yes, make yourself a teacher and find yourself somebody to study with. Those are absolutely important to do, but we should never feel as if we don't have enough to bring to the table to get started. If you wanna learn Talmud, then start with what little you know, find a translation, find a dictionary, do something. Start with what you know, with what you have. If you want to make electronic music and if you don't have anything, do something. Do you have a phone? Get an app that makes little funky sounds. Get a tape recorder, do something. Find something that you can make noise with and make noise and make a joyful of noise with what you've got. And from that you can build, but the thing that holds us back is precisely feeling like, "I don't have enough to start." And if there's one thing that I want to teach people in this world, it is that we always have enough to start. RB: Thank you so much for, first of all, being on our first podcast and coming in and sharing your music with us. LM: Thank you, historical moment really. RB: It really is, this is a big moment for us. BS: I'm floored. I'm gonna be pondering this for sometime. [laughter] Some real life lessons in there. RB: And that's also a great lesson to carry forward, especially as for living in this world where people are struggling with "Religion, what is this about?", to start somewhere. So we're gonna say good bye, but Leiah is going to play one more song for us, very fitting I think, usually at the end of every big moment in Judaism, I think, the Adon Olam. I'm pretty honored we get an Adon Olam after this. BS: Yeah we get, yeah. This is like... Yeah, we started with my Ma Tovu and we are gonna end with Adon Olam. I feel like throwing an Amidah there somewhere and we're set. [chuckle] RB: We just hosted a prayer service, I think. BS: I think so. RB: We did it. [chuckle] I think maybe we can become rabbis too Bryan. S: I hear there's a little bit of work involved. [laughter] RB: All right. So to end this off, we are gonna pass the mic to you as well as your synthesizer and your drum machine. LM: All right. RB: And, thank you so much for being with us. LM: Thank you. [music]