Rabbi Shira:        I can't say it enough. Like, just don't spend on the young people. I mean, if you have infinite money, spend it on the young people. That's great. But if you have a finite amount of money which most synagogues do, don't worry about the young people, right? They'll come or they won't. 

Bryan:              From the recording studios of Reconstructing Judaism, this is Trending Jewish. 

Rachael Burgess:    Bom bom bom bom bom bom.

Bryan:              You know what I realized? 

Rachael:          What? 

Bryan:              I used to say a Jewish podcast about everything and we just stopped and maybe that's apropos because rather than being all over the place, these last five, eight episodes have actually been about one or two things. 

Rachael:          Well, I mean, I don't know. I just kind of assumed that you just forgot about it because I feel like we're covering ...

Bryan:              Oh I did forget about it.

Rachael:          Yeah. That's what I just assumed. 

Bryan:              I'm just trying to give a justification for forgetting about it. 

Rachael:          Yeah, I don't think you need to be all rabbinic about it. I think ...

Bryan:              A Jewish podcast about everything. You know what's funny, I think I told you this off air, but I listened to an interview with Jerry Seinfeld on the New Yorker Radio Hour who was sort of our inspiration for that. The show about nothing. And I learned that he really takes offense to the idea that the show was about nothing and the whole episode they did about the show being about nothing was kind of a way to get back at that, but he really saw it being about the little things in life and he's like, I think he mentioned John McPhee, the New Yorker non fiction writer. John McPhee writes about the little things. He's this great artist, you know. I do it, it's about nothing. So it's just ... I don't know if there's a lesson behind that but it's like you think you know something and take it for granted and you found out you actually don't know it. Does this have anything to do with what we're talking about today? Or I just sent us down a rabbit hole and forced all our listeners to tune out before they get to our great guest. 

Rachael:          Well, you know that's a great question. I don't know any sort of ... my mind that usually has some rabbinic quote and tie in and transition, isn't working right now. So, I think you're just going to have to, I think we're just going to have to end our rant and just go right into our guests. So thank you everyone. 

Bryan:              So we've ... that's all because I forgot our slogan. We've been doing a bunch of episodes and interviews this year looking at evolving Jewish communities and communities that are very different from the norm, partially because we're wondering what more mainstream existing communities, and especially our Reconstructionist communities, might learn from these outliers that really seem to be attracting a lot of attention. Somebody we have with us today, Rabbi Shira Stutman is really at the forefront of this as the senior rabbi at Sixth and I which is this religious cultural phenomenon in downtown DC that has attracted thousands of young professionals, both Jewish and not, for book talks, for events, programs, and for religious services and other programming. 

Rachael:          So anyone who is looking to try and engage young professional Jews in their 20s and 30s, you've been asking yourself and wracking your brain about how to engage the next generation of Jews, this is the episode to listen to. If you listen to none of our other episodes, this is the one.

Bryan:              There's a lot of ...

Rachael:          Actually we have a lot of them. So listen to all of them. They are really important.

Bryan:              This is a good one. Our producer, Sam Wachs, said it was one of his favorites, so take that for gospel and ...

Rachael:          And he's going to give it five stars as a review afterwards.

Bryan:              Yes. So as I said, Rabbi Shira Stutman is the senior rabbi of Sixth and I, and in that work she supports boutique communities including workshops for interfaith couples and those interested in joining the Jewish community. She serves as a scholar in residence for the national women's philanthropy program of Jewish Gederations of North America. She's a board member of Jews United for Justice and on the J Street Rabbinic Cabinet. She graduated from the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College in 2007 and her bio reads that her favorite T-shirt says "This is what a real rabbi looks like." So welcome, Rabbi Shira Stutman, an old acquaintance of mine. I'm excited to see you again, to have you on the show. 

Bryan:              I remember 10 years ago when I was a journalist and you were a new rabbi, I thought you were among the smartest, [most] interesting people to interview in the community and you had a mix of kind of innovative and a little bit old school thinking that I thought was really unique and I'm not surprised, you've got the recognition you have at Sixth and I, so I'm thrilled to talk to you again and to see how maybe your thinking has evolved and changed or hasn't and we're just happy you're here.

Rabbi Shira:        I'm really happy to be here. Thank you guys so much for having me.

Rachael:          So Sixth and I is really shaking things up in the DC area. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what Sixth and I is about and what you're doing?

Rabbi Shira:        Yeah, great. So, Sixth and I is located in downtown DC. Literally at the intersection of Sixth Street and I street. And its goal is to increase conversation and community in downtown DC, so we do that a few different ways. First of all, we have arts and culture, book talks, concerts, podcast recordings, those are all secular, right? Almost all secular in nature. Although for instance we did have a Ehud Barak here for his book tour just last week. But usually those are secular or those bring in all different types of people from around the area. And then we have a spiritual community which is targeted towards people in their 20s and 30s, so it's sort of the easiest way to talk about it is as a Hillel for people in their 20s and 30s. We have no children's programming here by design, so the idea is that we are a community but for a very specific age group in a very specific stage of formation. And then people will go on to join other communities, god willing, later on in their lives. 

Rabbi Shira:        So we have about 85,000 visitors a year to Sixth and I for all of our various programs and our religious programming, I mean depending on how you count it, we like to say between 10,000 and 15,000 visits a year for our young professional programming at Sixth and I.

Bryan:              As innovative as it is, there clearly are antecedents. I mean I remember back when I was in my early 20s, there was the Makor Center on the Upper West Side, where you could go to Shabbat dinner and hear Nora Jones play in the same week. I guess I'm wondering since we're coming to you from the recording studios of Reconstructing Judaism, would Mordecai Kaplan recognize Sixth and I as a synagogue center? Is there any ... I mean do you see it in that tradition at all or is it something totally different related to the 21st Century? 

Rabbi Shira:        I love that question because it's actually something we think about, I think about a lot and I've talked about with other Reconstructionist colleagues, so I don't like to speak for Mordecai Kaplan. I'll leave that to Deborah Waxman, but I do think in some ways this would be exactly what he would have imagined, could he have imagined  21st Century technological innovation and millennials and everything that we know to be true. 

Rabbi Shira:        This is very much a synagogue center and we don't have a swimming pool but besides that it's very much a synagogue center and it very much connects the Jewish culture and tradition with American culture and tradition in a very Reconstructionist way. There are other pieces about it that are very much not Reconstructionist in nature, although I can't speak again for Kaplan, that I could talk about if we get into the details of the structure of Sixth and I and how it works but in general the idea that America has something to teach the Jews. The Jews have something to teach America. People should be allowed to plug into Judaism in all different ways from all different vantage points. 

Rabbi Shira:        Our understanding of what Judaism looks like is continually evolving. I mean a lot of this is very Reconstructionist in nature. 

Bryan:              I guess this is a question that faces any community that targets a subset but I guess there's clearly a shelf life for people involved. I mean once they have kids and want to go to Tot Shabbat, they have to go somewhere else I guess. So is that, I mean is that part of your thinking? Are you expecting in downtown DC there is always going to be that next group of millennials looking to take the place of those who age out? 

Rabbi Shira:        So, this is ... what you are asking and so early on in our podcast recording is really one of the key aspects ...

Bryan:              Sorry, I'm supposed to work up to it.

Rabbi Shira:        I know. I know. But this is one of the key questions. I think in terms of what makes Sixth and I unique -- and I'm using the word unique on purpose, not in the sort of overused colloquial way we use it nowadays -- what makes Sixth and I unique is this experiment with bringing people in, creating spiritual community and then sending them out. So we have a bunch of different programs that we are running and working on to really help send people out with integrity and thoughtfulness and love but it is, it's a growing question for us.

Rabbi Shira:        The second half of your question was in terms of the millennials who come to DC, the young people, I mean the engine of DC is government and that's not ... whoever is in power, God willing that's not going anywhere. There will always be more and more young people coming to DC to work for the government, against the government, whatever it may be. But the other thing that's changing in DC, like many urban centers, DC is rapidly gentrifying in ways that are not uncomplicated for us at Sixth and I. But a lot of people who came to DC and thought they were only going to be here for a few years are actually not leaving. They are not moving to the suburbs and they are also just not leaving Washington at all. 

Rabbi Shira:        So we do have a growing number of family and empty nesters here in DC who really would like Sixth and I to be more than just a young professional community and it's something that we're struggling with all the time. We are the only synagogue in downtown DC and so it's a question that's always very alive for us. Right now, we are still very much dedicated to our core group, which are the young professionals in their 20s and 30s. They are not all professionals but young people in their 20s and 30s, because we feel like that's a really specific stage and age of life and the vast majority of synagogues you go to around the country, the young people are in their 50s. So to have a place where services tonight will have 300 or 400 people and maybe 30 of them will be in their 50s, it feels different. The energy is different and it brings in more and more young people all the time. 

Rachael:          So one of the things that I hear quite a bit from different synagogues is we need to bring in the young people. We need to bring in the millennials. What are traditional synagogues missing that you seem to have hit the mark on? 

Rabbi Shira:        Yeah, I wish synagogues would stop saying that. Like, there's the fetishization of young people [that] I think is like a vestigial remnant of a time when we really wanted to fight intermarriage in a way that -- some people are still fighting that fight but not many in the same way. I think that young people are not -- I wish more synagogues were focusing more on young families, rather than on people in their 20s and 30s. So here's what I think they are missing. 

Rabbi Shira:        I think synagogues need to decide whether they actually want to change and I think a lot of times synagogues will think that they want to be --I mean they actually do want to be welcoming but they don't want to change. And so, what we try to do at Sixth and I is go to where the people are and try to understand sort of what they want from Judaism, whether it means talking about Israel/Palestine or whether it means providing  life cycle rituals without circumcision for baby boys who are born without circumcision or are not going to be circumcised or whether it means creating services that are more relaxed and musical. There are so many things that we do at Sixth and I but more than anything else, what we are willing to do is evolve as the people evolve and a lot of synagogues are just very set in their ways. 

Rabbi Shira:        Even if their ways are progressive and they are already doing life cycle ceremonies for boys who are not being circumcised there are other ways that they are sort of swimming in a water that they don't even recognize and they just are not willing to sort of get outside of it. And in a way I don't blame them. I like going to my old synagogue and doing things that I've always done it. I just don't think that they should on the one hand expect to have a whole new generation of young people come in who are not partnered, who have different ideas about who they want to be, and on other hand be able to keep on doing it the way they've always been doing it with just a little adjustment around the edges. 

Rabbi Shira:        Also, I'll just say one last thing. Two last things. First of all, we have no membership at Sixth and I. It's entirely a la carte, so that's one thing that young people tend to like better. They want to pay for a service that they want. And second of all, we just have a critical mass. Like remember, if you're in West Orange or even if you're in Milwaukee which is a big city, you just don't have a critical mass of young Jewish people and we just have that. We have tens of thousands of them here in DC. So we're lucky in that way.

Bryan:              Earlier, when you were just starting out at the rabbinate, one of the things that you did was act as a spiritual leader for kind of an emergent boutique community and you and I had a lot of conversations about that and you were kind of both really gung-ho about breaking the mold and serving ... you know meeting people where they are. But you also seem like you had real reservations about people moving away from the responsibilities and expectations that come with a full community synagogue membership. I mean has that, I'm wondering how your thoughts have evolved on that. You know, being so successful at a place that has this radically different expectations of membership. 

Rabbi Shira:        Yeah, so when I was in rabbinical school, I helped to start a small havurah that's still around called Kesher Shalom in Abington, Pennsylvania and I did feel a little bit of ... I had some complicated feelings because these were on the one hand, and I'm sure we talked about this awhile ago Bryan, these were people who were not choosing between KI or Beth Shalom. These were people who were choosing either between nothing and  Kesher Shalom or they were choosing maybe between like the Unitarian Church and Kesher Shalom. 

Rabbi Shira:        And so on the one hand, we were bringing in people who otherwise would not have been served, but on the other hand, there is a reason that the traditional synagogues structure has grown up the way that it has, and that people pay sizeable amounts of money for services, some of which they use, but some of that money is going towards services they will never use and I'm not even just talking about the religious services they don't attend. I'm talking about the program for taking care of the elders and Hebrew school if people don't have kids or camp scholarships for people who don't have money to pay for camp. 

Rabbi Shira:        So I do think as more and more Jews are opting out of paying synagogue dues, and here I'm talking about people who could very well afford it but just don't see it as a financial priority, I really think it's going to be to the detriment of the larger Jewish community. That being said, I am also still convinced that there are other ways to earn income besides me paying the $7000 a year that I pay for membership to my local synagogue and I'm someone who goes almost every week and I once realized that it still cost me like a lot of money every time I stepped foot through the door. 

Rabbi Shira:        So for someone who is not going to step foot through the door, but still wants some sort of spiritual guidance or just needs to be another answer and one of the answers we've come up with at Sixth and I is the earned income that comes from the concerts and the book talks. We don't make a lot of money because our number one goal is to actually bring people in the door, but we make some money and it does, a lot of that money goes towards helping to support our religious programs, our religious programmings, so that they can still be subsidized. 

Rabbi Shira:        And so we are very much trying to figure it out. We're going to be experimenting with corporate sponsorship of our events, which on the one hand makes my skin crawl, right? Like the idea that Lululemon might sponsor one of our services. We're very far from that, but that could happen. But on the other hand, if it means that we can stay away from a membership model which people don't seem that excited to pay anyway, I think it would be, it's a really good experiment. And the one thing that I just, you know, in the back of the mind I keep thinking is we're talking about, well, what happens if a restaurant wants to have a sponsorship at Sixth and I. We know they are not respectful of their workers. What will we do? 

Rabbi Shira:        Of course hopefully what we will do is not allow that restaurant to sponsor an event, but it's going to get complicated pretty quickly. Just remember, that a lot of the philanthropic dollars that we take also came, you know, came to people in ways that were not always entirely reflecting the values of the Reconstructionist tradition we want them to reflect and that's what it means to have to take money from the larger world. So it's complicated. So I think that traditional synagogues still need to exist? 100%. Do I think that the synagogues themselves have the responsibility to figure out how to bring people in? 100%. It's not the people's responsibility to show up reflexively anymore. 

Rachael:          One of the things that I think about especially when I've looked at synagogue budgets, it's that a lot expenses go toward maintaining a building for example. And one of the things that you've talked about doing is going out to where the people are in order to engage your core group of people. Do you think that Jewish communities now really need to be tied to a building anymore?

Rabbi Shira:        Well it's funny. We are very tied to our building. At Sixth and I, we do the vast majority of programming in a building but I do think with synagogues, buildings make a difference. You want a third space. You want a home. I mean I don't know, if you think of kids who grew up in a synagogue they can tell you, like which bathroom they went to gossip about and they can tell where so and so -- so I do think buildings matter. Just like homes matter. That being said, if your synagogue is empty, 80% of the time, then you don't need that building and either you need to figure out how to make money off of its emptiness or you should leave the building. Just leave it. Sell it and move to a smaller building.

Rabbi Shira:        I think a synagogue that is only built for the high holidays just doesn't need the space, partner with churches. Rent it out for events. There are just so many things that synagogues can do that they are not doing. We have a staff here. We have someone who does full time rentals. We have someone who does ... a few people who do our book talks and so I just think -- partner with another synagogue. You know? I won't speak for any specific community but there are many communities where there are lots of synagogues in one small area and if they can't figure out how to combine and be one community, which would seem to be a problem people should solve, maybe they could just have two communities in one building. There's a lot of creative ways and one of the things ... Sixth and I, our founding philanthropists were all real estate people so they understand the importance of using real estate well and I think the Jews just don't. 

Bryan:              As somebody who clearly thinks about the big pictures and the big questions facing Jewish community, I'm wondering what your role is at Jewish Federation and how that shaped you? Your bio says you have a gig there.

Rabbi Shira:        Yeah. Yeah, I still do a tremendous amount of work with the Jewish Federation system. Look, I believe that the Federation is something that if we didn't have it, it would need to be recreated. And you know, do I think that in many ways the Federation system, I know it's fashionable to say it's broke and I do think in many ways it's broken and I know that in general, 21st Century people don't do federated giving, whether to the Jewish Federation or United Way or Catholic Charities the way that they used to. Like, I get all of that. But the Federation system moves a lot of money every single year and money is really what makes the world go around, whether we like it, capitalist or anti capitalist. Either way it's like ... so the question is how can the Federation system be most effective in supporting the Jewish community of the 21st century. 

Rabbi Shira:        There are a lot of people who are very connected to the Federation system that believe really deeply in the Jewish community and many of those people disagree, we disagree vehemently on what it means to support the sort of 21st Century Jewish community and there have been years where I have asked that the donations that I make to Federation not be dedicated to one specific area or another, but what I do believe at the end of the day is that most of the people who work in the Federation system, and by this I mean not just the professionals but actually the volunteers, they want a vibrant Jewish community. We might disagree on what that means, but it is very much a makhloket le-shem shamayim --  It's a conversation and it's a argument for the sake of heaven and so I love nothing more than to go out into the communities and talk about the young people that I work with and hear about some of the challenges of the communities themselves. 

Rabbi Shira:        As I said, DC is a growing Jewish community and most of the communities I go to are shrinking Jewish communities, so there is a very different need in those communities than we might have in DC. So I have deep love and affinity for Federation, even as we, as I very, very much disagree on a number of things. 

Rachael:          Has there been things, as you're at the forefront of looking at what the evolution of Judaism is like, you're working with the next generation, is there any new trends that are coming up that contradicted things that you held very close and you felt very strongly about, and if there was, how do you handle that?

Rabbi Shira:        Yeah, I mean everyday, right? So the one that is coming up more and more, we do an interfaith couples workshop here at Sixth and I that's incredibly powerful for me at least to hear some of the struggles and challenges that young people are dealing with and so for instance, the question of having a child who's being raised actively in two faith traditions. You know, I am evolving in that, not that I ... not that I've become an active supporter of children being raised in two faith traditions but I do know that for many couples that's what they want.  And when I started at RRC, I was very much, oh it will confuse the children and it's a horrible thing and it's going to lead to the end of the Jewish people and I guess I've just reframed that question in a way. 

Rabbi Shira:        I don't think children will be confused. I think children take as normal what you tell them is normal and I also no longer think that I have a right to dictate for a family and a couple what is right for them, in their religious practice. It doesn't mean that I will officiate at a ceremony for a child who is being actively raised in two faith traditions, but it does mean that I've moved to a place where my job is to be of service to the young people who come to Sixth and I, keeping my own integrity intact, but in the way that really will help them grow spiritually throughout the course of their young life together.

Bryan:              I guess since you threw out "officiate", I guess I just wanted to follow up and see exactly what you meant. Was that like a bar or bat mitzvah or a wedding of a family that are telling you that they are going to raise their child in two faiths? What did you mean exactly?

Rabbi Shira:        Like if there's a baby naming or a bris of a child that's also being baptized. I don't do bar mitzvahs because we don't have teenagers. 

Bryan:              Right. Right. Right. 

Rabbi Shira:        Exactly. It's a funny part of the job. I do a lot of weddings but I don't typically co-officiate at weddings. If there is going to be two active faiths in the home, then it's just like, they don't want me. They want someone who really embraces that in a whole different way. I also don't do a lot of funerals. Yeah, so that's what I mean by officiate. Mostly it's baby namings and weddings. 

Rachael:          So what is that role of the rabbi ... as I just jump on Bryan. What is the role of the rabbi like now in this new evolving community because now you're not taking this authoritarian role of "this is what you need to do to be Jewish"? 

Rabbi Shira:        And sometimes people hate that. Let me just be clear. Sometimes you'll hear people say,  "Rabbi just tell me what to do. What should I do?" And I love telling people what to do so it's not a huge problem. So my role is to be an educator. One of the things that I've grown to believe strongly at Sixth and I is one of the reason that people are walking away from Judaism is their lack of knowledge is beyond anything we could even imagine and by we, I mean those of us who continued on in Hebrew school after bar and bat mitzvah or those of us who study Torah regularly or who attend synagogue, that there is just such a lack of knowledge. 

Rabbi Shira:        So my role is to teach and to help people see where Judaism can be meaningful in their lives. My role is to love people, no matter who they are and how they behave. I don't have to love their behavior but I have to love them. And my role is to help Judaism be the tree that people can lean against and the home that they can come back to no matter who they are.

Bryan:              I'm wondering since you primarily work with young adults, do you ever feel like your whole professional life is sort of an attempt to make up or overcome people's bad or uninspiring Hebrew school experiences? 

Rabbi Shira:        Every. single. day. That's actually only partially true. A lot of work is with converts and interfaith couples with a non-Jewish partner and those are almost to a person my favorite people, right? Because they don't have the same baggage. Some of them have the baggage about the faith tradition they grew up in but I do ... look I don't like to blame Hebrew schools. Do I think that Hebrew schools like this whole niche could be better? 100%. Do I tell every single student that if their kid hates Hebrew school, they should find a different Hebrew school? 100%. Like, all of that is true. I think that families share the burden of the responsibility. What I say to parents all the time, when I speak at these Federation events is keep your kid home from Hebrew school but you, the parent, go out and study Torah every Wednesday night and your child will get more from hearing "oh it's Wednesday night. That's when Mom goes to study Torah", then they will from five years of Hebrew school. 

Rabbi Shira:        So the whole drop off culture of Hebrew school. The whole  anthropological part of Hebrew school where it's like "this is something that other Jews do. Other Jews celebrate Shavuot. Other Jews..." but the kids themselves have no connection to it as a lived practice, I mean that's really where ... so I just think the blame can be shared all around and not just at the Hebrew school level. 

Bryan:              Wow. That's deep. I'm sort of wondering where my kids are going to be at in 20 years. 

Rachael:          Better start going to Torah school. Or Torah classes now. 

Bryan:              We saw on YouTube that you officiated a funeral for a pet? Is that ...

Rachael:          Is that normal?

Bryan:              Was that a one-time thing? Or is that ...

Rachael:          I've seen like cemeteries now that for animals and things like that, how ... like that seems a little bit new. 

Rabbi Shira:        This actually will let me talk about RRC in a way that expresses just one piece of my gratitude for my education there. I think it was the first semester. I was taking Life Cycle with Linda Holtzman and she started talking about pet funerals. And I was like, "no. "It was at that moment that I really ... I couldn't believe I had chosen this seminary. I could not believe these crazy, Mount Airy hippies would talk about pet ... so Linda in her way, was just like,  "All right. Good luck." And a few years later, I was at Kesher Shalom as I spoke about earlier and there was a family, two parents, a mom and a dad and the dad had just been diagnosed with lymphoma and the mom had just been diagnosed with early stage breast cancer and they had a six year old kid and their beloved dog died. 

Rabbi Shira:        They called me and they said, we want to bury the dog's ashes in our backyard, will you come do a pet funeral? And it was at that moment, it's funny like I get goose bumps just thinking about. I realize that yes, this is about the dog dying. Right? And I happen not to be an animal person, so that's a harder thing for me, but this is also about this sadness that this family is experiencing right now ,and the unfairness of what life had thrown at them in that moment with two parents, each of whom was struggling with cancer. One young kid and then this beloved pet who had died, and I said, "Of course I will come and do a dog funeral for you."

Rabbi Shira:        So I crafted a funeral. I'm sure I can find it somewhere. I mean it was before the days of Google docs so who knows. But, and it wasn't ... we didn't do El Malei Rachamim for this dog. Right? We didn't do the Mourner's Kaddish for this dog. As Bryan said, I am kind of a traditionalist at heart, but we spoke about what the dog had added to the family and we spoke about the dog's personality and we spoke about the tough things the family was going through and we spoke about how they still had each other and I think for the family it was an incredibly healing moment.

Rabbi Shira:        So since that time I've only been asked to do one more dog funeral, which I also did. And I have learned, I am still ... we have no animals in our house. We had two guinea pigs for a year and then we gave them away. It was, like, enough. 

Rachael:          So you didn't have to do those funerals? 

Rabbi Shira:        No. No thank God. We're just not animal people. But I have learned that one of my biggest learnings as a rabbi, you know it will come as no surprise to you, like I'm an extrovert. I have my own areas of sadness, but I just am around people all the time, but there's a tremendous amount of loneliness in this world. Just unbelievable amounts of loneliness that people carry, people who are single, even people who are partnered. There's just ... and pets can really change that for a human being. If you are alone, or feeling like you're not understood or you're not loved the way you deserve to be loved, all those things that we try to work on in therapy, having a pet who loves you unconditionally can really just change the trajectory of your life, and I'm not being hyperbolic. 

Rabbi Shira:        And so, now when people's pets die, I'll bring it up in a class so people can talk about their pet. You know I send all the links to Ritualwell which I love also, so that people can say the prayers they need to say. If someone says can I light a Yahrzeit candle for my pet, I say of course. If someone says, can I say Kaddish for my pet at services, I'll do one of those rabbinic "Well, I would probably not say the kaddish prayer, but if you want to stand up and just acknowledge your sadness and if you want to say kaddish, I'm definitely not going to come over and stop you." So, this is the evolving civilization and pets are not, they are seen differently than they were, in America they are seen differently than they were in other times and then they are in other cultures. 

Rachael:          You know I was just actually listening to something in the news about, you know, even in divorces now where because pets were always considered property and that was divided in a divorce and now you have joint custody of a pet. 

Rabbi Shira:        Yup, all the time. 

Rachael:          So it's really like a pet is now a member of the family, so it's interesting how that's evolved. 

Rabbi Shira:        100%. I've had pets in weddings. I've had one pet at a bar mitzvah. I'm never going to do that again because that pet just pissed me off. I have pets ... I mean pets are such a big part ... by the way giving to, I do a lot of work talking about tzedakah with students who don't give any tzedakah, and for a lot of the students, giving to animal rights organizations or animal care organizations is their doorway in. You know, for interesting reasons if you're not ready to give to human organizations, because they see pets as so vulnerable and so alone and so I would never say to someone don't give to a pet, a shelter. But I would see it as one piece of a larger sudoku puzzle. 

Bryan:              I brought this conversation to the dogs and I'll try to bring it back.

Rabbi Shira:        I'm sorry. Is it off topic? 

Bryan:              No. No. No not at all. This is great. 

Rabbi Shira:        Let me just say, I'm sorry Bryan. This is a great example of right, if you go to a ... we're trying to think of things like a more traditional even Reconstructionist synagogue might not be open to, right? The idea of acknowledging a pet during the yahrzeits. That might just feel to people like no, Jews don't do that and it is true that traditionally Jews don't do that. But it is also something that is incredibly meaningful to people. So yeah, just sorry.

Bryan:              No, no, no. That's great. I think you actually kind of set me up.

Rabbi Shira:        Oh good. 

Bryan:              I think we touched on this earlier but I didn't want to end the call without asking this. Being that most synagogues are not in a place like DC and do not have this critical mass of young people and probably couldn't do what you do, are there lessons that a synagogue in West Orange, New Jersey or wherever, are there lessons from Sixth and I that synagogues out there could take or look to? 

Rabbi Shira:        There are a few. One is, I said this before but I can't say it enough. Just don't spend money on the young people. I mean if you have infinite money, spend it on the young people. That's great. But if you have a finite amount of money which most synagogues do, don't worry about the young people, right? They'll come or they won't but invest in young families. That's the first piece of advice. You know I also would say, trust your clergy. Trust your staff. One of the things that we don't do at Sixth and I, one of the things that takes us out of the sort of Reconstructionist framework is we're not very lay led in many ways. We are very staff driven. I think a lot of times, synagogues, especially synagogue boards, committees can get in the weeds in a way that is not helpful. 

Rabbi Shira:        Of course you have to have the right kind of clergy member at the synagogue and I would say invest in your clergy. You really do want to try to find the right person for your community. I would say take risks and be ready to fail. We fail all the time at Sixth and I. If we had another hour, I would actually love to tell you about all of our failures, so you can see how important it can be. I would say understand the zeitgeist, whatever it is. Whether you're in West Orange or Hartford understand what is actually happening in the community and what's important to people. 

Rabbi Shira:        I would say don't get tied down in boundaries. Though I think the Recon movement is doing great work in terms of expanding the notion of what it means to be part of the Jewish community. What we want is to get more people in the room and not worry so much about who is a Jew and who is not and who should be where. And the last thing I would say is and I'm just trying to say the things that feel most counter cultural, counter intuitive, I am a huge proselytizer. I know that makes Jews feel a little bit queasy and it's not part of our tradition and it's not like I'm out on the street corner with a sandwich board, telling people to be Jewish but I do think that Judaism is inherently meaningful and that conversion classes and just bringing more and more people in is the way to go.

Bryan:              I'm interested in the conversion question but I think since you teased it, is there one failure you'd want to cite that really was instructive, meaningful that you learned from that you wanted to tease for us? 

Rabbi Shira:        Well there are times when we have, oh gosh, now I'm like "well we've never failed." There are times when we've had ideas to do classes on certain topics certainly and then people haven't signed up and then we just cancel them. We're like "Oh, we thought this class was going to be interesting but no one cares about it, so we're moving on."

Rabbi Shira:        There have been times where, like for instance, tomorrow night we're having an amazing, I think, Shavuot program where we start at nine o'clock with lots and lots of food and then we have learning and then we're doing a midnight bike ride through the city and we're coming back and learning some more and then doing Israeli dancing and then we're doing, making toiletry kits for the homeless and then we're going to go out and do yoga on the mall. We thought we would get easily 200 people for this event, and it turns out we're going to be luckily if we get to 95, which is still a good number ... that's not horrible, but that the overlap in the Venn Diagram between the people who care enough about Shavuot, to know that it's happening and stay up all night to do it, but are progressive enough to go on a bike ride and do Israeli dancing in the middle of the night, like the overlap is not as big as we thought it was. 

Rabbi Shira:        So that's an example of, it's not a failure. We didn't cancel the event, but we thought it was going to go differently than it actually did. 

Rachael:          That sounds like fun. I might have to make a trip down to DC.

Rabbi Shira:        You should. It's going to be amazing. I don't know why more people aren't coming. I think it's because we didn't go a good enough job of letting people know early on that they didn't have to stay for the whole thing. They sort of thought it was like a lock in.

Rachael:          Or they were committed to the entire ... like you're locked in. You can't get out of this. We're going to chain you to your bike. 

Rabbi Shira:        That's exactly right. And also, we have had some failures with our social justice work where we try to do interfaith work with communities that just didn't, that just weren't as interested in sort of being involved with us as we were with them. We've had failures ... now you've got me started Bryan, I can go on. When a refugee family came, we wanted to figure out how to support them, but then we realized that Sixth and I,ers because they are younger, whereas a suburban synagogue can easily, many suburban synagogues can easily raise $15,000 for a refugee family and suburban families tend to have extra furniture in the basement that no one is using. Our young people don't have either of those things. So we had to  readjust and now we're going to have our young people be the ones that pick up the furniture from the rich suburban families and bring it to the refugee families because our people have time, just not money. 

Rabbi Shira:        So, you know, that's like another example of like, we tried something. We went all in and then we're like, this didn't work. Let's try to reconfigure. 

Rachael:          We also shouldn't end this on a "these are your failures. We should also like keep in mind that this an incredibly successful community model and it's great to be able to talk to you about your work, to see how excited you are and to hear about all the wonderful things that you're doing, how you have this great following and you're keeping young people engaged in the Jewish world. It certainly speaks to me and I wish lived a little closer to DC because Shavuot sounds like so much fun. 

Rabbi Shira:        Well you don't even have to get a hotel room if you come, because you will just be staying up all night anyway. So you should think about coming to DC. Next year maybe.

Rachael:          And next year in DC. 

Rabbi Shira:        Amazing. 

Rachael:          I like it. 

Rabbi Shira:        Well thank you guys so much for inviting me to be on the podcast. 

Rachael:          Thank you very much. If anybody listening, if you are coming into DC at any time, definitely check out Sixth and I and the address is right in its name so it's on Sixth and I streets. So make sure you definitely check them out if you're coming into town, see all the great work that they are doing and be a part of that experience. 

Rabbi Shira:        Great.

Bryan:              This was a lot of fun. I remembered how much I enjoyed interviewing you. 

Rabbi Shira:        Good good. Well thank you guys so much. This was really a blast. 

Bryan:              That was a great show. Tell your friends about it. Tell them to look us up on iTunes, Google Play, Overcast, Castro. Rate us. Give us five stars. Help people find the show. 

Rachael:          If you have ideas and you want to you can think of people we should talk to or topics we should go over, definitely message us on our webpage. So we are at trendingjewish.fireside.fm. We are also on Facebook. So Facebook.com/trendingjewish. So you can definitely send us a message there. We're always there. You can follow us on Facebook and you know if you like programs like this, you like the work that we're doing here at Reconstructing Judaism, your support helps make these things happen, so just go to reconstructingjudaism.org/support.

Bryan:              Thanks so much. We'll see you next week. 

Rachael:          See you next time here on Trending Jewish.