The Remarkable Business Show - Episode 4.mp3

Jon: [00:00:00] This is the remarkable business show on remarkable.fm. I'm Jon Moss and this is Episode Four. Prepare to tell your to legs shut up! 

VO: [00:00:10] Cyclist, skier, international fugitive and all round curious guy. Here's the latest edition of the Remarkable Business Show with your host, Jon Moss. 

Jon: [00:00:24] Hello and welcome to the show. It's a good one today. As you may have guessed from the introduction, I'm a keen cyclist. In fact a MAMIL. You know what that is don't you? A Middle Aged Man In Lycra. Oh yeah! So when I had the opportunity to interview one of the biggest names in cycling, I was pretty excited, okay, really excited. 

Jon: [00:00:58] So who is the guest today? Well actually, it's Jens Voigt! Jens is a cycling legend. We're actually the same age around 35. Well maybe not. He's a German former professional road cyclist and he's been cycling for several teams over his incredibly successful career. The last one being Pro Team Trek Factory Racing. He wore the yellow jersey at the Tour de France twice. His career achievements include winning the criterium International a record tying five times and a number of 1 week stage races as well as two Tour de France stage victories. In September 2014 he set a new hour record, the record now held by certain Sir Wiggo. 

Jon: [00:01:42] Jens is a remarkable person and he gives us a fascinating insight into the world of cycling as well as business, brands and technology. 

Jon: [00:01:51] So what are we going to cover in our conversation? We're going to look at the importance of bikes in developing countries and how it absolutely transforms people's lives. We're going to talk about Shut Up Legs, his brand and how that came about. Has cycling become too focussed on business and money? How technology has changed in cycling. A joke that Trek played on Jens with a new test frame. E- bikes and a little secret from Jens. Are there electric motors in the pelleton? The total lack of innocence with mechanical doping. The major changes we will see in bikes over the next few years and the one thing Jens thinks will disappear. His predictions for the Giro and the Tour and also geocaching and how you can join in. 

Jon: [00:02:34] Jens and I caught up when he was over in San Francisco and it was right at the beginning of the Giro. One of the three grand tours in cycling which is a race over three weeks. The other ones are the Spanish Vuelta and of course the Tour de France. 

Jon: [00:02:46] Now if everything has gone according to plan, this episode should be dropping the day before the tour starts. So fingers crossed, this could be perfect timing. Jens was having breakfast when we caught up on Skype. So please excuse the slight background noise. It's not often you get an opportunity to chat with someone like Jens. I really hope you enjoy our conversation. 

VO: [00:03:07] Accessible, authentic and useful then - The Remarkable Business Show speaks to remarkable people. 

Jon: [00:03:13] Okay I am very, very pleased to be welcoming a special guest to the podcast today and that is the very lovely Jens Voigt. 

Jon: [00:03:24] So yeah. Welcome to the remarkable business podcast and thank you so much for coming on. 

Jens: [00:03:29] Hey good morning from where I am now. Thanks for having me. Thanks for the honour to invite me. 

Jon: [00:03:35] It's really, really my pleasure. And whereabouts in the world are you today Jens? What's going on? What are you doing today, what are you doing this week? 

Jens: [00:03:43] I am in California to be precisely just maybe five miles off the Golden Gate Bridge in Marin County. A beautiful part of the land. I just finished my morning run and now I'm gonna have another bike ride today and a charity bike ride tomorrow for World Bicycle Relief. And then on the Sunday Tour of California starts and I'll be part of that. 

Jon: [00:04:07] Fantastic. And World Bicycle Relief. I've donated some money to that before as well. It's such a great charity isn't it? Just tell the listeners a little bit about what they do. 

[00:04:18] So of course I help them wherever and whenever I can. So World Bicycle Relief. What they are trying to do is to get bikes to people that are still developing. Africa and some countries in Asia, some in South America. The idea is a child in Africa, instead of having to walk 45 minutes to school the child gets a bike and he can cover the same distance in 10 minutes or eight minutes or another thing if there is a local doctor somewhere in the middle of northern Africa. If he walks he can see two patients that day and you can carry 10 pounds of medicine. If he got a bike he can see 20 persons a day and maybe save 20 lives and he can carry 50 pounds of medicine. So they are trying to make life better in really remote and developing countries, really remote areas. Trying to help people just be more mobile and get some some some movement going. 

Jon: [00:05:16] And it completely transforms people's lives doesn't it? It is amazing what a simple bike can do. 

Jens: [00:05:22] Clearly it is. And don't forget some of these countries are more of the poor countries. So a brand new bike. It's for a lot of these children and people, this is the first item that you have ever given to them which is brand new and only for them. It's like a mind blowing experience for these people to get a bike and a change, and as you said, it changes your lives so much. 

Jon: [00:05:44] Yeah. No it's really good. I'll make sure I put a link to the website in the show notes as well. It's such a great charity and great that you're supporting it. 

Jon: [00:05:52] One of the things I was going to ask you about is the SHUT UP LEGS brand Jens - it's become pretty famous hasn't it and you've got a fantastic website selling some really nice items of clothing and all sorts. How did that actually happen? How did you suddenly realise you had a brand and you could sell some great gear? 

[00:06:14] I used the words Shut Up Legs I believe the first time in, in an interview with Danish TV about 2007 I guess and then I guess friends liked it and cut everything except the Shut Up Legs from the interview. It became a self-igniting process somehow. Now I get people that send me pictures of whatever the Boston marathon with Shut Up Legs on a road or a triathlon on Melbourne with Shut Up Legs on the road. So yeah it's kind of like a trademark and I believe it will be still there when I'm gone. So I like that actually to be honest, I like that and together with a few friends we figured you know like are in retirement and have a little more time. Let's start a little online business and make some shirts for Shut Up Legs because I saw people printing their own shirts and coming up with some Shut Up Legs gear and I figured hey I might as well do the orignal one and produce my own shirt and hoodie and what about cycling kit. 

Jon: [00:07:08] They look great. No it is really nice to see and I know a few friends have bought stuff as well so it's great to have that kind of brand which is, it's a global brand. You're a global brand which is pretty impressive. 

Jens: [00:07:20] Thank you. 

Jon: [00:07:21] So talking of business. Do you think cycling has become too business orientated? Do you think we've still got that kind of passion for just riding? I know, you know organisers need to make money but I think one of the examples you know the Giro they were looking at having the best descender prize which got cancelled as far as I'm aware. Do you think it's become too business orientated? 

Jens: [00:07:45] Well I guess what part in life is not kind of like business orientated? Cycling is from when I started to now it has been become a lot bigger more glamorous world wide, global more successful, bigger budgets but also more stress. Until last year I would have said yes it is. But then I saw last year the Tour de France you know Froome attacking in the downhill against all odds, against all logic and getting away with it. Peter Sagan just riding for fun you know. Peter Sagan gives media impression. He wants to be first. He wants to be spectacular. And secondly, maybe he wants to win as well but he wants to be spectacular first of all. So the attack they had together. Chris Froome in yellow, Peter Sagan in the World Champion Jersey attacking like 10 Kms to go in the cross wind scetion. That was just fantastic to see so there is still passion there. It is more business there because, I mean if you see Team Sky. The team they have in the Tour de France they are nine bike riders right, probably a 10 million pound investment. If you take these nine salaries together we probably look at 10 million pound salaries. So hell yeah you want to protect that investment. If you look at it as a serious investment you know - it would be silly to not take care of something something that important and that expensive. There is always business involved, yes there is. But there's still enough passion left so I'm not worried there. 

Jon: [00:09:09] Yeah now that's good. I agree we need people especially like Peter and yourself and people with a bit of charisma, you know charisma and not just that, you know so I'm just I'm getting on the bike to do a job so I think you're right there. 

Jon: [00:09:24] One of the other things we talked about just before we got online recording this today Jens, is the technology. I only started riding back in 2007. So I've been fairly you know I haven't experienced sort of old tech and old bikes, I've always been on a carbon bike in you know relatively good groupsets and things. But can you remember the first bikes that you rode and how things have changed? Is there anything in particular that you noticed is it the frames or is it electronic gears? 

Jens: [00:09:55] Well I would say on my first my very first bike when I was 10 years old it was a litle steel frame - silver metallic diamond - what you would call a diamont. But in German you pronounce it diamont. A brand new shiny silver diamont bike. Brand new item one gear of course only. My first professional bike in 98 was a ten point three kilograms steel frame from Eddie Merckx. And there was no problem at all, because everybody else had a ten kill steel frame back then. Then we had titanium. The biggest invention or technology change I saw was the index shifting, having shifting from down at the frame, having it with the brakes together - it makes cycling so much easier, more comfortable and so much safer. That was probably the biggest change. 

Jens: [00:10:44] Closely followed by the introduction of carbon - carbon is now everywhere in the cranks, seat tube of course the frame the wheels, carbon is everywhere and that made the bike so much lighter and stronger and faster you know you can get all of these aerodynamic shapes now so it's all also like, if I wanted to shortly touch another subject. The reason that the Tour de France seemed to go faster and faster. 

Jens: [00:11:09] It's not that if people are getting better and stronger it just the bike technology helped so much you know. I don't think I pushed more watts in my last Tour than my first Tour. But probably the first Tour in 98 we finished with a 37 or 38 average and nowadays every Tour de France has almost 40 average. But that is just because you've got aero helmets, aero jerseys. People sometimes race almost in skin suits on a road race. We got faster wheels, deep rim wheels. With the same power output but we just go faster. 

Jon: [00:11:38] More efficient. 

Jens: [00:11:40] More efficient. Exactly. I believe also at the moment the weight limit is six point eight kilograms and the upper weight limit is 25 kilograms I believe. It only concerns the downhillers because if they didn't have a weight limit they would have bikes that weighed 100 pounds so they could go faster downhill. So the upper weight limit is basically there for the downhill riders and I think the UCI probably in the close future they are going to drop the weight limit by another two or three, 400 grams because they can make perfectly strong and safe bikes at six point five kilos instead of six point eight. I even remember we had a Columbian rider who was only 165 tall. He had to add weight to his bike to make it legal. 

Jens: [00:12:23] So all these companies spend hundreds of thousands dollars to develop the lighest and most efficient bikes and we have these old-fashoned rules, people actually have to add weight to their bike to make it legal to race on it. So I think we need some more education there. 

Jon: [00:12:37] Yeah I would agree it's a bit like speed limits as well on some roads. I mean I know in Germany there are some derestricted roads. I was on those just a couple of weeks ago and it was you know, you were fine going along at 100 miles an hour because you're in you know a modern car and everybody else is doing that so I think I think you're right is it's a case of you know technology has moved on and so you know you need to expand the rules a little bit. 

Jens: [00:13:01] Absolutely. 

Jon: [00:13:02] And Trek do a very lightweight bike, the Emonda, I think isn't it, some of those variations, the frames are an incredibly light. 

Jens: [00:13:10] They are. I remember when one day showed me one of the first prototypes and all that and kind of did a practical joke on me. They gave me a carton, like a paper box with the frame inside. "Here check your new frame." So I lifted the carton box up. Are you kidding me?! That's an empty box. There's no way there is anything inside. They said nah. Believe me, open the box. I'm like nahhh, I'm just going to throw is away as rubbish. No, open the box. So I opened the paper / carton box and there was a frame in the box. It was so light that I thought they actually gave me an empty paper box to carry. It was mind blowing to see how light it goes since I saw prototypes and the way they make them. There are some thin walls on the frame but all together it's incredibly strong. But yeah. Some of the tubing is less than a mm. Glued all together and putting them in an over to bake to cook. It's an incredibly strong frame. 

Jon: [00:14:09] The innovation around carbon manufacture is astonishing and you've got companies like Trek who are leading the way without question. That's fantastic. 

Jon: [00:14:16] And other other bits of innovation, not necessarily in professional cycling Jens is e-bikes. I don't know if you've ever been on an e- bike. I tried one the other week up in the alps, just a mountain bike with a with it with an e- bike motor and it was astonishing! It was so much fun. And there's been massive amounts of investment in the past sort of year or so venture capitalists investing in companies who are producing these e-bikes. I just wondered whether you see those being used a lot more, you know for commuting around towns and cities? I think we're going to see a big, big change in the next few years. 

Jens: [00:14:51] Well Jon, let me tell you a secret just between you and me, don't tell anybody right, just the listeners on the podcast. Just between you and me, I use an e-bike almost every day when I'm at home. Because last year I bought a e-bike for my wife's birthday. So she owns an e-bike and every now and then actually use it to get the kids to school. It's a city commuter bike like a little shopping basket in the front. You know it's just a city bike. There's nothing sporting about it, it has different gears and all that but even fairly a heavy city bike. If you put electric support on turbo, you hardly have to pedal! It is brilliant! It's absolutely brilliant. 

Jens: [00:15:30] I remember the first time my wife used it like going to school just a tiny little uphill. It's a little steep but it's little, it's short. My wife never liked it and she was flying up this little hill adjusting her hair and look - "hey honey look at it I can take my glasses off and ride with one hand!." No. That was one leg. She was just delighted how much better and faster she was. It's a fantastic development. And as you said I am going to see a massive growth in the use of electric bikes because you can actually commute to work faster, quicker if you want to go slower you don't sweat at all. You arrive at work and your don't have to reshower. It's a fantastic development. And so we, we have our electric bike at home. 

Jon: [00:16:11] Well I'm very impressed that it is good to hear. I was amazed by it. The first time I got on one and it was a mountain bike nothing special but you know you could just as soon as you went uphill it kind of assisted you. And you could change to different speeds and you know how much effort you had to put in. And here we had a lot of fun. It was very good. 

Jens: [00:16:31] The bike I bought for my wife. It's a city bike, it's built in a way that only supports speed up to 25 to 20 km an hour. So if you want to do 30km an hour or 40 you've got to pedal all by yourself. No engine. But as long as you go slow enough, city speed the engine is there and the engine stops the moment you stop pushing on the pedals, the engine stops as well. It's very sensitive and it's a smart way to do it because it's not if you are riding a motorbike where the engine just keeps running and in case you ever want to brake or stop. The engine stops the moment you actually stop pedalling, you can break it down you can slow down any way any fast you want. So it's a pretty, pretty brilliant development. it's pretty safe, my wife just love it. All the kids had a try on it. They all love it. It's a fantastic. It makes our family life better and more fun. 

Jon: [00:17:21] Great to hear Jens. That's really good. And do you think there's ever been, I mean do you think there's ever been electric motors in the peleton? People always talk about this...People have seen the videos online. You know they scan the peleton now, they scan the bikes at the beginning of some of the races. But do you think do you think they're there? 

Jens: [00:17:41] Well if they ever were there, they are not anymore because the chance to get caught and detected it is way too high. Nobody take that risk. Yeah. For a long time I was actually convinced that we simply don't have the technology too build something that is small enough to fit inside the frame and yet be powerful enough to help you. Right right. That's what I saw. 

Jens: [00:18:01] But then this young Belgium girl got caught. I think she did the cyclocross with the engine in her frame. Then I figure if a 20 year old girl and her Dad can put that together in a garage. What could a multi-million dollar team or company do with laboratories and proper science behind it. You know it's just like if Joe Average in his garage can put it together and send his daughter to race with it then I thought, maybe there's a chance. Maybe they had some tries at training sessions to see how it goes. But I'm sure I'm fairly sure it has never been used in races, and if ever... Not in these days anymore. Too much control and you know you can't get away with it. And then plus mechanical doping is even worse than other doping, almost because an engine in your bike has only one purpose. There's no excuse that accidentally got into my bike. No. An engine does not get accidentally in your bike. You might sometimes have these cases where actually you know some contaminated protein powders or you know you just travel in a region where you use whatever anabolic for the chicken. There might be some ways where actually people innocently deliver a positive test. But was the engine in the bike... There is no way there is any innocence involved and so that would be even worse. Basically should be a lifetime ban for everybody involved. The rider, the mechanic, the persons around them - lifetime ban for all of them straight. First offence a straight lifetime ban for all of the. That would be terrible. 

Jon: [00:19:32] I agree. I think you're absolutely right. 

Jon: [00:19:34] Do you think we're going to see any major changes in bikes and technology in the next few years? I mean if you look at say for example the latest Twerk, the guys right now and I'm sure you ride as well. It's just astonishing. It looks almost like a spaceship these days doesn't it? The frame and everything integrated. Do you think there's anything going to change the next few years? 

Jens: [00:19:57] I actually do ride the Trek Madone. The team addition in red and it just looks like a Ferrari car. When I train anywhere in the world and people are turning their heads towards me... I'm not sure I believe more people look at that bike instead of recognising me. They are blown away by the bike. How great and slick and fast the bike looks. So yes, there are some brilliant bikes out there. Trek it does a great job. But hey other companies aslo produce pretty good bikes you know. You got to be fair, other companies are also doing a good job. 

Jens: [00:20:27] I think the most likely thing to happen is the disappearance of all cable. It will be all wireless operated and I wouldn't be surprised if any time soon we will also get rid of the cables for the brakes and like now we have with the derailleur, the shifting electronic, we will have some little mini engines in the brakes to actally brake electrically because the frames get so light so the weight we save on the frames with all the carbon. We get and then put on and make the brakes a little heavier by putting the little engine in there.Or so if you take the cables out. I mean that's what about three feet of steel cable for two brakes to brakes three feet maybe now maybe 5 feet of steel cable, that's all the weight you would lose so you could make the battery stronger to support the shifting and the braking. So I think in the close future we would see braking without cables and shifting without cables. Not even electric wire, it will be an micro wireless system on your bike. I think that would be development I can see happening. 

Jon: [00:21:28] That's as good as me I've never thought of that. That is a great one too. That's a great one to think about Jens. 

Jens: [00:21:33] Yeah it is. You wouldn't and wouldn't have no cables. Everything integrated. You wouldn't need to have the holes in the frame where the cables go in and out. That would reduce the amount of water, diret and sand getting in. So that would make the bikes even easier to maintain and looking even more sleek. No cables at all, no drilling holes in the frame where the cables get in and out. So the bikes would be looking even more fantastic so I am looking forward to that. 

Jon: [00:21:58] Fantastic. That is great. So we are, we are speaking and it's May time. We're in the middle of the Giro so who do you think's going to win this year? And then what do you think is going to happen in the Tour Jens? Have you got a favourite or you think any one that's going to be new is going to appear? 

[00:22:14] Yeah hear this. Nairo Quintana is neither going to win one of them. He's going to be second or third in the Giro and 4th , 5th or 6th in the Tour. 

Jon: [00:22:21] OK. 

Jens: [00:22:22] That's what happens when you want too much I believe. The double is not possible anymore in modern cycling. The races are just too hard. 

Jon: [00:22:28] Too tough. 

Jens: [00:22:28] Nibali wins the Giro. He's my winner. . 

Jon: [00:22:32] OK. 

Jens: [00:22:32] He played his cards close to the chest all season. Think he is ready. So Nibali wins the Giro d'Italia. 

Jens: [00:22:37] Call me lame or boring. But of course Chris Froome is going to win the Tour. If he doesn't drop himself, if he doesn't do a terrible technical mistake, I cannot see anybody being able to beat him. I think people don't even beat him like head to head. He drops them on the time trial and he drops them on the climb, he drops them on the downhills and he's got a really strong and dedicated team around him. He never has this double leadership problem. 

Jens: [00:23:02] So I don't see any way how anybody could actually beat him without being extremely lucky. You know. Second place will go to Richie Porte this year. He is as ready as ever, he is grown up. He's experienced enough, he's as skinny as I've ever seen and has had some really good results - unlucky he lost some time in Paris Nice in a crosswinds. But he is ready, if his team doesn't drop him again when he has a puncture. That was an unforgivable mistake they did there. BMC you should get their stuff together and go ok... We have a one chief strategy. We do not have 8 chiefs and one Indian because one Indian cannot do the work for 8 chiefs. You need one chief and 8 Indians. That's how it should be. They should go, "TJ, you are a good domestique, you are a superb helper, a domestique deluxe for Richie and Greg Van Avermaet if you're lucky you get in a break you can win a stage but we all need to support Richie. That is how we try to win the Tour this year. 

Jens: [00:23:58] So Richie second and then I expect a very interesting and fierce battle for third place. Young kids from Orica Greenedge. It's the Yates brothers. So Chavez I think with a knee problem he might not be in there. Romain Bardet he's gonna go for it again. Alberto Contador is still there. Nairo Quintana, Alejandro Valverde - I think these guys will all have to settle for third place but it will be a fierce and interesting battle. So I'm really looking forward to that. 

Jon: [00:24:25] No, it's going to be good. I hoping to get over there to watch a couple of stages and watching the Giro avidly on TV at the moment. 

Jens: [00:24:32] I'm following the results of the Giro as well every day and I'll be at the Tour de France commentating again for NBC. So I'll be there every day to see how it unfolds. 

Jon: [00:24:42] We look forward to hearing from you then Jens - always enjoyable to hear your thoughts on the race and the commentary. 

Jens: [00:24:48] Thank you! 

Jon: [00:24:48] And thank you for your time. That wraps it up nicely for this recording. I really, really appreciate you calling in. I hope you have a fantastic day over there in San Francisco. How's the weather by the way, is it any good? 

Jens: [00:25:01] It's lovely. I just finished my morning run, I went out to do some geocaching as well. I found two new geocaches here in California and it's lovely and sunny and I believe it's going to be a 25 degree day too. 

[00:25:14] So just perfect for riding, not too hot just nice and warm, short sleve jersey, no undershirt needed - pretty much perfect to be honest. Blue sky, it will be lovely. 

Jon: [00:25:23] That sounds great. And just for the people who are listening and wondering what geocaching, could you just explain it just quickly because you are a bit of a geo caching master aren't you? 

Jens: [00:25:34] I am yeah. My son is into it as well and also we have 750 finds all over the world. So geocaching is basically a treasure hunt for grown ups. People hide, I think at the moment we are about three million hidden little boxes all over the world. 

Jens: [00:25:48] I found some in Melbourne, in Sydney, I found some in New York and in Colorado and now in California, South Africa. I find one in Australia like two months ago when I was there. So geocaches are all over the world. So you go on the web page www.geocaching.com 

[00:26:06] You can sign up. It doesn't cost anything. Sign up and then you have all these geocaches available then you click, there's an app on your phone. You click on "please find that 20 closest geocaches" and then you can just go and look for them. It's a hidden box. You can sign in and there's a logbook, you can sign your user name in order to prove that you were there. They sometimes show you beautiful places, old churches, memorials, some cool interesting trees. They hide the geocache just underneath them. It's an interesting way of spending a day. If you have two hours to kill on a business trip. Nothing to else to do. Just go geocaching. The kids love it because it's a little secret society. You know some geocaches are in the middle of a city you would never know about it. So I guess there's a better character for what it kids do. It. My kids all love it. I have six children and I think more or less sometimes I take one or two or teh other two the next day. So all of them have been geocaching already with me. 

Jon: [00:27:02] That sounds great. So it's like it's almost like getting outside and doing something but with a little bit of technology as well. 

Jens: [00:27:08] Yeah. So absolutely. It almost feels that Pokemon Go was a copy of geocaching. 

Jon: [00:27:14] Haha, that's a good description. Very good description. Well thanks again Jens, it's been great to catch up today. For people who want to follow you on Twitter it's @jensvoigt Yeah that's right. That's correct isn't it? 

Jens: [00:27:26] I think it's @thejensie all lower case and one word because @jensvoigt was taken @jensvoigt1 was taken... @thejensie, that is my Twitter handle. 

Jon: [00:27:40] Perfect. We'll make sure we'll put those in the show notes and also to the Shut UP Legs website and thank you again for calling in. Have a great day. 

Jens: [00:27:49] Thank you so much. A great pleasure talking to you and I hope the viewers and listeners actually enjoy what we talked about. Thanks again for giving me the chance to be part of this. 

Jon: [00:27:58] Thank you Jens. Take care. 

Jens: [00:28:00] I will. Ok, thank you. 

VO: [00:28:04] The Remarkable Business Show. 

Jon: [00:28:09] Wow. That was amazing wasn't it. Thank you so much Jens. Jens is going to be commentating on the tour with NBC. And you can follow him on Twitter @thejensie. 

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Jon: [00:31:14] Tim Ferris is one very clever guy and someone who I admire and have followed for many years. I spent a few days with him back in 2008 at the very first Do Lectures where he was speaking. Tim makes a lot of sense with this quote. 

Jon: [00:31:27] "Never automate something that can be eliminated and never delegate something that can be automated or streamlined. Otherwise you waste someone else's time instead of your own which now wastes your hard earned cash." 

Jon: [00:31:40] I'm always keen to ensure that what I do makes the most of technology. Technology and marketing when combined correctly can equal magic. This is the main topic I focus on when I work with some of my clients. Most businesses whether a small company a growing SME or even a big organization and 99 percent of the time not using software fit for purpose and actually wasting time, money and opportunities with their marketing. 

Jon: [00:32:05] This is how I can help. If you'd like to have a chat send me an email. It may go into the Sanelater folder initially! jon@jonmoss.co.uk. 

Jon: [00:32:16] I'd love to have a chat with you and see if I could help. Being ruthless with what you focus on is vital to being effective and efficient. 

Jon: [00:32:23] Being effective means choosing the things that really matter the most and that's in life and in business. Being efficient means doing those things well using the right tools. 

Jon: [00:32:32] That brings us to the close of episode 4. So thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate your valuable time. Let me know what you think of the show by sending me an email to jon@jonmoss.co.uk I read every single email I get and I really do appreciate the feedback. 

Jon: [00:32:47] If you enjoyed the episode please let someone know. Send them a message or an email or tweet about the show. I'd really appreciate it. You can share this episode easily by clicking the share link at the top of the page. Thank you so much. 

Jon: [00:33:00] Also please leave an honest review for the show on iTunes or Stitcher - ratings and reviews are super-helpful and then make a really big difference to the shows visibility. Anything you write I promise I'll read. 

Jon: [00:33:11] So until next time... Enjoy life and make every day count. 

VO: [00:33:15] Dont miss the bulletin newsletter. Head on over to w w w dot. The apple of my eye dot com slash newsletter and sign up. You get a terrific free e-book too.